I scored a JVC QL-Y55F, now I need a cartridge. Maybe.

simpleton

simpleton

Member
Howdy folks,

I picked up a QL-Y55F recently. It did come with the packaging and both arms.

Right now there is a Yamaha MC-1s on the straight arm.

I listened to a few things, but it just does not sound good, kinda light and just seems to miss some low end. . It does have a Onkyo matching transformer (mt-2).

As a test, I put the cart from my Fluance RT81 (Audio Technica AT95E) on the curved arm, remove the transformer and it sounded much better.

I suspect the MC-1s is worn out and needs to be retipped. The receipt date is from '82 and I suspect the previous owner used it a LOT.

I don't know if the better route is to have the MC-1s retipped or to purchase a new cartridge.

My understanding is retipping is NOT cheap, would I do better to put that money towrds something new?

Simpleton
 
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A retip may be an option (I've never had it done myself) but I note that the MC-1s cartridge has a beryllium cantilever - I seem to remember reading that they don't age well and can be problematic. I think you need good advice from someone who knows about this before you put money into a retip.

Your JVC has a low-mass arm, so you need to consider high-compliance cartridges, although there are not many around today, most being medium-compliance. The Ortofon OM range is the obvious thought - OM10, 20, 30 or 40. However, the AT95E is at the low end of medium-compliance, so if that sounded good then you may be OK with a medium-compliance cartridge.
 
Does the Y55F have the same electronically dampened tonearm as my Y5F? If so, compliance is far less important.
 
Hmmm... the labeling “electro-servo” is the same as the Y5F, but you have to manually set the dampening. So, that means I’m confused.

With the Y5F, the electronic tonearm chooses the right dampening and therefore accommodates a very wide range of compliance.

Yours has similar-sounding parts, but it seems like you have to manually set the dampening. I am unclear if this means you can or cannot use a wide range of compliance.
 
simpleton said:
Howdy folks,

I picked up a QL-Y55F recently. It did come with the packaging and both arms.

Right now there is a Yamaha MC-1s on the straight arm.

I listened to a few things, but it just does not sound good, kinda light and just seems to miss some low end. . It does have a Onkyo matching transformer (mt-2).

As a test, I put the cart from my Fluance RT81 (Audio Technica AT95E) on the curved arm, remove the transformer and it sounded much better.

I suspect the MC-1s is worn out and needs to be retipped. The receipt date is from '82 and I suspect the previous owner used it a LOT.

I don't know if the better route is to have the MC-1s retipped or to purchase a new cartridge.

My understanding is retipping is NOT cheap, would I do better to put that money towrds something new?

Simpleton
Click to expand...

I think I can REALLY help you out.... Check your messages!
 
fish mojo said:
I’ve got the same TT. I got mine used from another collector. Came with an unfamiliar cartridge which I think is a Boston Accoustis MC-1. I wonder if they were labeling them for different resellers. Mine sounds wonderful as is, so I am sticking with It.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/new-to-me-tt.800844/#post-11114728

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/boston-acoustics/mc-1.shtml
Click to expand...

Odd! Mine (I have two) came with a JVC MC 200e cart (a rebadged AT 3100EX, with the removable stylus).
 
OK, I have pulled the trigger on a JVC MC200e cartridge. I should have it some time next week.

I'm now researching what all I need to attach it to one of the two tone arms I have. I also need to figure out which of the tone arms I should use for this, the curved or the straight arm.
 
Any cartridge will work on your turntable, low or high compliance, with either of the tonearm tubes. The arm mass (and cartridge compliance) is completely irrelevant with electronic tonearms like those, because the arm’s electronic feedback adjust it to suit any cartridge, and it effectively acts like it’s got zero effective mass, so that any cartridge will be a perfect match - guaranteed. The adjustable damping (Q-damping) is exactly the same as that on the QL-Y5F, QL-Y66F and QL-Y77F, as well as a lot of similar Denon turntables. There has been some speculation that JVC and Denon collaborated, because of their similarity in its name and the fact that it was adjustable.

The JVC and Denon adjustable Q-damping allowed you to adjust it from slightly less than the ideal value, to slightly above the ideal value, but they always had at least some damping. There was no need for it to be adjustable, but I suppose that they decided to appeal to the button twiddlers who wanted to have some input themselves, and may have gained some extra sales because of it. Sony just set their Biotracer damping automatically according to the tracking force, which made them slightly quicker to set up.

It doesn’t matter which tonearm tube you use with any cartridge, because the electronic feedback always adjusts to suit it and make it behave as though it has virtually no mass – if you watch the cartridge’s cantilever, it never appears to move, even over severe warps or with severely off-centre records.

Probably the only reason why it has two tonearm tubes is because a marketer decided that would probably gain more sales. While having different mass tubes is helpful for conventional tonearms, to make a wider range of cartridge compliances match well, it wasn’t necessary with the QL-Y55F, because the arm adapts itself to suit any cartridge.
 
ETI_5000 said:
Any cartridge will work on your turntable, low or high compliance, with either of the tonearm tubes. The arm mass (and cartridge compliance) is completely irrelevant with electronic tonearms like those, because the arm’s electronic feedback adjust it to suit any cartridge, and it effectively acts like it’s got zero effective mass, so that any cartridge will be a perfect match - guaranteed. The adjustable damping (Q-damping) is exactly the same as that on the QL-Y5F, QL-Y66F and QL-Y77F, as well as a lot of similar Denon turntables. There has been some speculation that JVC and Denon collaborated, because of their similarity in its name and the fact that it was adjustable.

The JVC and Denon adjustable Q-damping allowed you to adjust it from slightly less than the ideal value, to slightly above the ideal value, but they always had at least some damping. There was no need for it to be adjustable, but I suppose that they decided to appeal to the button twiddlers who wanted to have some input themselves, and may have gained some extra sales because of it. Sony just set their Biotracer damping automatically according to the tracking force, which made them slightly quicker to set up.

It doesn’t matter which tonearm tube you use with any cartridge, because the electronic feedback always adjusts to suit it and make it behave as though it has virtually no mass – if you watch the cartridge’s cantilever, it never appears to move, even over severe warps or with severely off-centre records.

Probably the only reason why it has two tonearm tubes is because a marketer decided that would probably gain more sales. While having different mass tubes is helpful for conventional tonearms, to make a wider range of cartridge compliances match well, it wasn’t necessary with the QL-Y55F, because the arm adapts itself to suit any cartridge.
Click to expand...

VERY helpful and informative.

I have been wading through post after post here and on other forums for the last few days piecing together info and had gotten about 10% of what you summed up in one post.

Well done, sir.

I will be going with the curved arm.
 
dlucy said:
There is also a Sony table, maybe biotracer, with the same electronically-dampened tonearm.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...have-an-opinion-on-sony-biotracer-tts.271282/
Click to expand...

Sony essentially led the field (1978 - PS-B80), being two years ahead of JVC’s first electronically-damped model (1980 - QL-Y5F), and three years ahead of Denon’s first (1981 – DP-100M, their greatest ever turntable, but very expensive).

Sony Biotracer tonearm models

Generation 1 (1978)
PS-B80 – s-shaped tonearm

Generation 2 (1979)
PS-X75 – J-shaped tonearm

Generation 3 (1981)
PS-X500, PS-X600 – straight tonearms
PS-X700 – J-shaped tonearm, slightly updated PS-X75
PS-X800 – linear tracking tonearm, arguably Sony’s best ever

Generation 4 (1983)
PS-FL77 – linear tracking tonearm, DD non-quartz, one of the few turntables which could be stacked under other equipment, as the mechanism was enclosed in a drawer!
PS-X555ES – linear tracking tonearm

All the above models were DD quartz-locked except for the PS-FL77, which was a conventional DD without quartz-locked speed.

JVC Electro-Dynamic Servo tonearm models

Generation 1 (1980)
QL-Y5F – s-shaped tonearm

Generation 2
(1981) QL-Y55F – removable s-shaped or straight tonearm tubes, either chrome-plated or in some markets the slightly cheaper black
(1982) QL-Y7 – J-shaped tonearm

Generation 3 (1985)
QL-Y66F – changeable plug-in straight or s-shaped tonearm pipes
QL-Y77F – changeable plug-in straight or s-shaped tonearm pipes

Denon Dynamic Servo Tracer tonearm models

Generation 1 (1981)
DP-100M - Their greatest ever turntable, very expensive, aimed at professional use

Generation 2 (1982)
DP-57L – changeable plug-in straight or s-shaped tonearm pipes
DP-62L – changeable plug-in straight or s-shaped tonearm pipes

The DP-57L and DP-62L used the same electronics, tonearm and plinth, but were different colours.

DP-67L – changeable plug-in straight or s-shaped tonearm pipes
DP-72L – changeable plug-in straight or s-shaped tonearm pipes

The DP-67L and DP-72L used the same electronics as the DP-57L and DP-62L, and had identical performance, but used a heavier base. The only difference between the DP-67L and DP-72L was the colour of the base.

Generation 3
(1983) DP-11F
(1983) DP-35F – straight tonearm
(1983) DP-45F – straight tonearm
(1984) DP-59L, DP-59M – changeable plug-in straight or s-shaped tonearm pipes

Generation 4
(1984) DP-37F– straight tonearm
(1985) DP-47F – straight tonearm

Also the following Denon models, which I haven’t dated yet:

DP15F
DP-23F
DP-51F
DP-52F
DP-61F

There were also a few models which had electronic damping only on the horizontal tonearm movement, including Sony PS-X65 and JVC QL-Y3F, QL-Y33F and L-F71.

JVC was the first to drop their electronically-damped turntables in around 1986/87, followed by Sony in 1992, and Denon around the year 2000.
 
Last edited:
ETI_5000 said:
There has been some speculation that JVC and Denon collaborated,
Click to expand...

If I were to guess it would be that Victor/JVC were the designers and Denon adopted/licensed it
in their tables.

Victor/JVC made tonearms and turntables one of the very few [3 or maybe 4] with the in house
technical abilities.

Denon made cartridges although some will be aghast at this statement.
 
OK, I have learned quite a bit in the last few days and I think I may have found the answer to my original issue with the MC-1s.

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/yamaha/mc-1s.shtml

Specs show an impedance of 30ohms. The Onkyo MT-2 shows an input impedance of 24ohms.

What is weird is the transformer was connected to the TT when I got it out of the box.

I do have the original receiver it was connected to, a Pioneer SX-1080. Right now I have it connected to a newer Denon.

Would the phono amp in the 70's Pioneer be better able to compensate for an impedance mismatch like this than the Denon from 2010?

Another theory (and I like this one) is that the original owner never had it setup right so the MC-1s has very few hours on it.

Or is this not enough of a mismatch to matter?
 
totem said:
Denon made cartridges although some will be aghast at this statement.
Click to expand...

I don't quite understand that statement. Not sure when they started making tables but the DL-103 cartridge came out in 1962.
I'm a fan of Denon carts and if the right deal showed up I'd have a Denon table as well.
Right now I'm rocking a JVC QL-A7 turntable with a Denon DL-103S cart using a Denon AU-320 SUT. Sounds awesome.

BillWojo
 
ETI_5000 said:
Any cartridge will work on your turntable, low or high compliance, with either of the tonearm tubes. The arm mass (and cartridge compliance) is completely irrelevant with electronic tonearms like those, because the arm’s electronic feedback adjust it to suit any cartridge, and it effectively acts like it’s got zero effective mass, so that any cartridge will be a perfect match - guaranteed. The adjustable damping (Q-damping) is exactly the same as that on the QL-Y5F, QL-Y66F and QL-Y77F, as well as a lot of similar Denon turntables. There has been some speculation that JVC and Denon collaborated, because of their similarity in its name and the fact that it was adjustable.

The JVC and Denon adjustable Q-damping allowed you to adjust it from slightly less than the ideal value, to slightly above the ideal value, but they always had at least some damping. There was no need for it to be adjustable, but I suppose that they decided to appeal to the button twiddlers who wanted to have some input themselves, and may have gained some extra sales because of it. Sony just set their Biotracer damping automatically according to the tracking force, which made them slightly quicker to set up.

It doesn’t matter which tonearm tube you use with any cartridge, because the electronic feedback always adjusts to suit it and make it behave as though it has virtually no mass – if you watch the cartridge’s cantilever, it never appears to move, even over severe warps or with severely off-centre records.

Probably the only reason why it has two tonearm tubes is because a marketer decided that would probably gain more sales. While having different mass tubes is helpful for conventional tonearms, to make a wider range of cartridge compliances match well, it wasn’t necessary with the QL-Y55F, because the arm adapts itself to suit any cartridge.
Click to expand...

I think that JVC designed the arms for different compliance carts. The S arm is for medium mass carts, while they had two different straight arms, one for higher compliance carts than the other.
 
Ken Boyd said:
I think that JVC designed the arms for different compliance carts. The S arm is for medium mass carts, while they had two different straight arms, one for higher compliance carts than the other.
Click to expand...
The manual doesn’t say anything about compliance, but it does give mass ranges for the two arms and the straight arm is for lighter cartridges.

Also, FWIW, the cartridge supplied with non-US/Canada/W.German models had a compliance of 8 (@ 100Hz presumably), which would be the same as the ellipticals in A-T’s VM500/700 series.
 
I own a couple JVC QL-Y55f's, and a Denon DP51F. I MUCH prefer the JVC over the Denon (which according to Vinyl Engine anyway, came out in 1982-83).
 
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