Impedance measurements on 10 Audio Technica carts

Bauhausler

Rational Subjectivist
I was bored this morning so I ran impedance tests on 15 AT cart bodies. I was curious which ones were low inductance.
Here are the results:

AT15S
DCR: 511/517
Inductance: 350mh

AT88E (AT11E?)
DCR: 1503/1490
Inductance: 652mh

AT100E (AT11E?)
DCR: 1550/1615
Inductance: 632

AT13Ea
DCR: 1560/1451
Inductance: 609

AT52W2 (AT12Sa?)
DCR: 493/509
Inductance: 420mh

Signet TK5E
DCR: 1530/1530
Inductance: 646mh

Signet TK3E
DCR: 1502/1572
Inductance: 600mh

Signet TK1Ea
DCR: 889/893
Inductance: 500mh

Signet TK1Ea
DCR 851/841
Inductance: 500mh

Signet TK3Ea
DCR: 868/825
Inductance: 480mh

Signet MR 5.0
DCR: 934/947
Inductance: 454mh

So if you're looking for low inductance it looks like the 'keepers' here are the AT15, the AT52W2 and the Signet MR 5.0.

I got the inductance by measuring DCR and the 1khz impedance. The difference divided by 6.28 is the inductance in mh.
 
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Any reason you didn't measure inductance directly with an LCR meter (which may measure the same way for all I know)? Is it too low to be measured with a "consumer" LCR meter (e.g., the cheap one that I have)?
Did you measure the impedance at 1k (sine wave?) or is it a nominal value for each cartridge?
 
Cool! I've often heard that several older AT's and Signets were low inductance types, nice to see the figures. Does this translate to smoother mids as I've led myself to believe?
 
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Any reason you didn't measure inductance directly with an LCR meter (which may measure the same way for all I know)? Is it too low to be measured with a "consumer" LCR meter (e.g., the cheap one that I have)?
Did you measure the impedance at 1k (sine wave?) or is it a nominal value for each cartridge?

I did measure the carts with two different LCR meters. They gave DRC readings that were high, and inductance readings that were low. This indicates that the two parameters were interfering with each other in the measurements.
I measured the DCR and 1khz impedance using a Woofer Tester 3 with the level turned down to prevent overdriving the coils. This gives a very accurate impedance curve. It's very easy to pick the impedance values off of the curve and enter them into a spreadsheet to calculate inductance.
 
Cool! I've often heard that several older AT's and Signets were low inductance types, nice to see the figures. Does this translate to smoother mids as I've led myself to believe?

I can't say for sure. The AT15S is NOS and has never been mounted. I have listened to the TK1Ea with a 125LC stylus and that's wonderful.

I plan to experiment with low L MM carts and low C loading to see what happens when the LC electrical resonance is pushed as high out of the audio band as possible.
 
...I measured the DCR and 1khz impedance using a Woofer Tester 3 with the level turned down to prevent overdriving the coils. This gives a very accurate impedance curve. It's very easy to pick the impedance values off of the curve and enter them into a spreadsheet to calculate inductance.

That is cool! I had no idea one could do that with the Woofer Tester!
 
One that surprised me was the AT52W2. It comes with a nice bonded Shibata tip and is relatively low inductance. Perhaps this was intended as a Quad pickup. The stylus fits on the older Signet TK*E bodies, but it sounds better on the AT52W2 body.
 
That is cool! I had no idea one could do that with the Woofer Tester!

I'll try anything. I should post a screencap, but they're on a different computer and it will take a while.

I also tested some Shures. I got inductance values of nearly 1H for an M91 body. 1H inductance with 400pf shunt cap yields a LC resonance of 8khz.

The 350mh inductance of the AT15 bypassed with 80pf total capacitance yields a LC resonance of 30khz.

ETA: I re-measured that M91 body. 660 Ohms DCR and 660mh.

ETA: I experimented on junk bodies first to make sure the output voltage of the WT3 wouldn't burn out the coils before applying signal to any 'good' carts. It worked OK with no damage. Still, I would caution against measuring any low impedance carts in this way. They might draw enough current to damage the windings.
 
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Interesting, staying tuned for further tests! Do you remove the stylus assembly for measurements?

Good question. Yes I do. I should re-test one with the magnets in place to see if it makes a difference. It might.

ETA: makes about a 1% difference in the inductance.

I just measured an Orto OM body

DCR: 830, Inductance 400mh. That's pretty low.
 
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V15LT 350mH !?

Interesting!

Last time someone measured one of these and posted it, it was around 500mH same as the V15IV.

The body you've measured at 350mH would make it the same as a V15V !

With regards to inductance and the LC resonance - I am not convinced it is as big a deal as people think!

If you measure the L/C/R values, and calculate out the theoretical frequency response of the electrical system...

Then you measure the cartridges frequency response, plug the values into a spreadsheet and DEDUCT the calculated L/C/R response, you will then get an interesting "delta" plot.

This shows two things:

1) electro magnetic "imperfections" (eg eddy current and hysteresis effects, also biasing effect of the signal itself)
2) The raw response of the cantilever including:
- resonances (these are the really obvious thing that shows up!)
- slight drops reflecting the loss of signal at frequencies where THD rises (the energy has to come from somewhere) - this only shows up when using spot or sweep tests, pink noise won't show this.

A couple of interesting things I found out by doing just this (and then started noticing it mentioned in various technical literature about cartridges!) - all cantilevers have a slight dip (depending on the design anywhere from 0.5db to 3db) somwhere in the sibiliance area (3k to 10k Hz)
This appears to be cantilever related, as once I deduct the LCR from the F/R plot it appears that those cantilevers that are boron or beryllium have smaller dip than those that are aluminium.

Secondly the LCR resonance (positioned somewhere between 6k and 16k) of some of the higher inductance designs starts to make sense, as it fills out the dip to provide a flatter effective frequency response, and sometimes also compensates for the subsequent drop in high frequency caused by the high inductance and capacitance.

Where things get interesting is when you look at things like the AT25 family of cartridges... 88mH - seriously low inductance (for a high output MM that is)

With inductance of 88mH and capacitance of 150pf the resonance is well and truly far outside the audio zone - so the audible response quality is exclusively down to the quality and efficiency of the cantilever and magnetic system...
These (like many other AT cartridges) also used laminated core poles, but additionally had toroidal coils - so they were well designed to minimise non linear magnetic effects....
Then you look at the styli that were fitted to them -
Beryllium rod.... the best that AT had. (replaced with Boron in their current TOTL)

The 3k-10k dip is much more controlled than most, and the cantilever resonance is somewhere above 20kHz ( at some point I need to measure that - last time I measured this cartridge I did not have the necessary test record to identify high frequency resonance)

Will this give you better "midrange smoothness" than a higher inductance design that uses the resonances to balance things out? - I'm not convinced one way or the other. The V15IV is a remarkably smooth and neutral cartridge... and uses the LCR resonance as part of its solution

The V15V is better and also uses the LCR resonance albeit more lightly

The AT25 / TK9E does not achieve the flatness of the frequency response plots on the Shures - the LCR resonance is too far out of the way to help! - so the dip is "exposed", and so is the subsequent rise to a resonance somewhere above 20kHz..... pretty much the same as you will see on many very high quality MC's

In fact the TK9E response curve looks almost identical to that from an Empire/Benz MC1 (Boron cantilever eliptical late 80's 2nd from the top model, the top model was the Benz Micro MC VdH - same body and cantilever fitted with the VdH/Fritz Geiger tip)

Does it sound good - yes it does - is it as good a neutral reproducer of the original recording as something like the V15V.... I'm not sure it is.

bye for now

David
 
"Secondly the LCR resonance (positioned somewhere between 6k and 16k) of some of the higher inductance designs starts to make sense, as it fills out the dip to provide a flatter effective frequency response, and sometimes also compensates for the subsequent drop in high frequency caused by the high inductance and capacitance."

I suspected that some of the High L carts that recommended a High C loading were intentionally moving the LC resonance down to fill in the cantilever resonance dip. Probably not an ideal solution in terms of phase linearity but it may help produce a flatter frequency response in the audio band.
Wasn't there a Sony or Pioneer cart that had a 6K LC resonance that was thought to contribute to a nice midrange?

Using custom RIAA preamps and short leads I can get the C load down to a few tens of pf. I may experiment with some of these low L carts and see what happens when the LC resonance is pushed way out of the audio band.
 
Hmmmm, what should a layman take away from this with respect to the typical 47k loading? Will the low inductance cartridge generally react differently than the high inductance cart with loading variance?
 
"Secondly the LCR resonance (positioned somewhere between 6k and 16k) of some of the higher inductance designs starts to make sense, as it fills out the dip to provide a flatter effective frequency response, and sometimes also compensates for the subsequent drop in high frequency caused by the high inductance and capacitance."

I suspected that some of the High L carts that recommended a High C loading were intentionally moving the LC resonance down to fill in the cantilever resonance dip. Probably not an ideal solution in terms of phase linearity but it may help produce a flatter frequency response in the audio band.
Wasn't there a Sony or Pioneer cart that had a 6K LC resonance that was thought to contribute to a nice midrange?

Using custom RIAA preamps and short leads I can get the C load down to a few tens of pf. I may experiment with some of these low L carts and see what happens when the LC resonance is pushed way out of the audio band.
I agree phase may be an issue... BUT

Cartridge loading LCR is a minimum phase phenomenon
most natural physical resonances, are also minimum phase phenomenon

So when you compensate for a drop with a boost generated using a minimum phase method you effectively re-EQ both phase as well as amplitude.

Problems can happen however if you use a digital linear phase filter - where the EQ intentionally leaves the phase untouched - the cantilever response dips and peaks will have affected phase - the linear phase EQ won't remedy that....

I did something similar, and can get my own setup down to around 60pf - which certainly exposes the cantilever response! - makes things much more "MC" like for a lot of MM/MI cartridges - but ultimately they sound best with the right EQ ... oops sorry meant to say "cartridge loading"...
 
Hmmmm, what should a layman take away from this with respect to the typical 47k loading? Will the low inductance cartridge generally react differently than the high inductance cart with loading variance?

Yes any cartridge will respond to loading based on its inductance .... different inductance shifts the frequency at which the R loading acts... changing the capacitance also shifts the frequency...

The laymans answer is to make sure that your capacitance is as close to the recommended nominal value for your cartridge as possible.

And to leave the 47k resistive loading alone.

However if you are game to make up parallel resistive loading plugs (solder a resistor into an RCA plug and use a double adapter) - then you can experiment with adjusting the voicing/EQ of your cartridge.

When you do that, you choose to alter the cartridge voicing to suit your own tastes, and not to follow the factory/designers voicing.
 
ADC XLM II
Inductance 490mH
DCR 714 ohms

AT70/71E
Inductance 450mH
DCR 445 ohms

AT 150 mlx
Inductance 335mH
DCR 610 ohms

Empire S100
Inductance 660mH
DCR 1500 ohms

Pickering xsv 3000
Inductance 290mH
DCR 625 ohms

Shure M75ED
Inductance 750mH
DCR 595 ohms

Stanton 681EEE
Inductance 980 mH
DCR 1230 ohms



BTW I used a DMM to measure the DCR and a cheap LC meter to measure inductance. The values I got for the first 2 carts in the list are within 10% of specs I've found online, so I'm fairly confident these are right.

Are there any general rules regarding inductance/DCR? It seems the carts I like best are lower inductance, for example (except the Stanton 681EEE)

Edit:
- all readings taken without stylus. In most cases it didn't make too much difference, but for some (like the ADC) it did.
- Added measurements for Stanton 681EE
 
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