Integrated Amp Help... Jolida?

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Netdewt

Active Member
I am on a quest for an integrated amp. At first I was all about SS because I thought I couldn't afford tubes. But I could do well with tubes because I am a tinkerer... I recently ran across Jolida and the reviews are really great.

I'd be open to a hybrid or all-tube.
I listen to a wide variety of music.
Budget is $500-$800 or so.
Just planning on bookshelf speakers.
Open to vintage/used gear.

Suggestions? Thanks for any help.
 
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For that budget, I'd probably find a vintage EICO or Scott and just go crazy with re-capping and upgrades/mods. Thats just me though.

The Jolida JD-102 and 302 look good though too.
 
Lots of great vintage choices. You can usually get something vintage that is about twice as good as a similarly priced modern tubes amp, it'll just likely need a little work. :yes:

How much power do you need? (aka what speaker efficiency and room size do you have?)
 
Speaker efficiency... I know I'm not doing planar/ribbon. Just planning on bookshelfs for now. I was thinking Paradigm Mini Monitors because they are in budget and I have two friends that have them and love them. I now nothing about vintage speakers though.

The room is about 18x12, living room. The system may end up in my "office" though if its ugly and the wife says no.

Is it true that SS amps have better bass? I listen to classical, etc as well as rock, electronic, etc. So, I need something versatile.

I'd take this... nice. http://www.stereophile.com/integratedamps/606eico/:D
 
The Jolidas are nice amps , and the Paradigms are pretty efficient speakers. I would lean towards the Jolida , but I have a bias against 40 year old stuff that needs to be fixed to be worth anything.
 
Netdewt said:
I am on a quest for an integrated amp. I thought I couldn't afford tubes. But I could do well with tubes because I am a tinkerer... I recently ran across Jolida and the reviews are really great.

I'd be open to a hybrid or all-tube.
I listen to a wide variety of music.
Budget is $500-$800 or so.
Just planning on bookshelf speakers.
Open to vintage/used gear.

Suggestions? Thanks for any help.
Click to expand...

I think you'd like the Eico HF81. But if your a tinkerer rolling your own has a lot of satisfaction not to mention what you can do with parts quality.

One of my amps went down a few months back, I had it back up and running within 2 hrs which included diagnosing the problem ordering my part and picking it up then putting it in. Not bad! Try this with a SS amp!

As to an efficient speaker with a small foot print and one that can be modified with astounding results and fit in the decor accepting of a women take a look at my thread here

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159340



Netdewt said:
Is it true that SS amps have better bass? I listen to classical, etc as well as rock, electronic, etc. So, I need something versatile.
Click to expand...

While it may be true of many very good SS amps, its not of all!

I like Jolida's myself I find them very musical but I also don't find them the most informative either.

I had the hybrid 100 watt/channel here that a friend bought. Again very musical but a small soundstage and to my surprise my 10 watt SET Monoblock amps where even more extended in the bass and the treble not to mention much more transparent with a sound stage literally twice the size.

So its all in an amps design.

I don't use the classical approach to my SET amp design as I use a blend. But it is pretty amazing 60 yr old technology can bring to the listener.

SET12
 
Happy owner of a Jolida 102b. I’ve gotten 4-5 trouble free yeas out of it so far. I also liked the 1301A hybrid (and for less $$).

I was in the same boat thinking the entry fee for tubes was too high for me. It’s hard to beat their products in the sub $1,000 range (new).
 
Jolida 302 or a 502 will be in your price range. Both are great amps, but you'll find that the use of certain tubes will change the sound from the amps to suit your liking. This is the fun part. I like both SS and tubes, just depends on what I'm wanting to listen to at the time. Have fun and good luck on finding a good deal.
 
From personal experience, I would not recommend getting vintage gear; you'll likely have to spend time and money repairing and servicing it, I speak from personal experience. I recently bought a vintage Harmon Kardon Citation 12 amplifier, apparently in very good condition for $200; I cost me $360 in repairs with bad components on the main board. I also bought a NAD 1300 at the same time that cost me $140 in repairs. So, I spent $500 in repairs for components I had literally bought the week before. My experience is not atypical, either, Stereo Repair In-House Service Company, one of the leading repair shops of Audio Research says that any vintage Audio Research product you buy should undergo a complete servicing to replace old, worn out components.

Regarding AR power amps and preamps:
"Power amps (Tube):
Most of the older production of these amps (most of the D , V and Classic series) will need a lot of resoldering, resistor replacement, replacement of coupling and filter caps and upgrades in the power supply.

Preamps (Tube, hybrid):
The older SP and LS series will usually need a complete rebuild, replacing resistors and caps, along with resoldering of the pc boards and cleaning of all controls and switches.


Get a Jolida 102B or 202A and call it a day....they will outperform any of the vintage stuff, and you won't need to repair it like you might with vintage stuff with dried up, old electrolytic capacitors, etc. I have a Jolida JD801A integrated amp, and it is very, very musical, open and transparent. The high-end store I frequent, Stereo Unlimited in Walnut Creek, CA sells a LOT of Jolida integrateds and mono blocks, and for good reason; however, they do not like the sound from the 302 or 502. They only carry the 102B, 202A, the 707A, and the JD801A. Depending on your budget, I would get one of those. Jolida doesn't get reviews in the major mags, but they are very, very good sounding, very musical, sweet-sounding, and well-built, and will give you years of trouble-free service. You can tinker to your heart's content with them.

If it were me, I'd stay away from the vintage gear.
 
If you enjoy tinkering and soldering get a nice vintage piece, If you can't do most of the work yourself buy new, slightly used or a vintage piece restored by a reputable tube guru.
 
You could easily find a COMPLETELY REFURBISHED Eico, Scott or Fisher amp for $500 to 800. Once they're re-capped and have a set of good tubes in them, they'll easily out-last any of the modern inexpensive stuff.

Side note: as for someone having to spend $360 to rework a Citation 12 amp... I just don't understand this. I COMPLETELY replaced EVERY semiconductor (all twelve transistors- including outputs) and every cap (except filter caps, which almost always test absolutely fine) in mine, and the parts cost LESS than $90.00 TOTAL, for EVERYTHING. And the main board comes out (it's on a plug-in card!), so you can just literally set it on the bench and work on it without interference from anything. $270 labor for that? OTOH- I would like anyone to name a new-production SS stereo amp of at least 60w/ch that you could buy for $560 or less, that would match the performance of a restored Citation 12... don't think you'll have too easy of a time with that...

Also, Audio Research is a ATYPICAL example, in itself. They use CIRCUIT BOARDS for their tube amps. Most of the vintage gear is POINT TO POINT WIRED... with NOT NEARLY the heat-damage related problems that the Audio Research gear exhibits, in many cases...

I'm just waiting for some of these Asian new-production amps to get some years on them... especially the ones based on circuit boards. Bet they won't last nearly as long as these vintage amps. In fact, I'll bet many of the current vintage amps will STILL be in working condition (or readily restored) when most of the new-production circuit-board based amps are UNFIX-ABLE in future times...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
You could easily find a COMPLETELY REFURBISHED Eico, Scott or Fisher amp for $500 to 800. Once they're re-capped and have a set of good tubes in them, they'll easily out-last any of the modern inexpensive stuff.

Side note: as for someone having to spend $360 to rework a Citation 12 amp... I just don't understand this. I COMPLETELY replaced EVERY semiconductor (all twelve transistors- including outputs) and every cap (except filter caps, which almost always test absolutely fine) in mine, and the parts cost LESS than $90.00 TOTAL, for EVERYTHING. And the main board comes out (it's on a plug-in card!), so you can just literally set it on the bench and work on it without interference from anything. $270 labor for that? OTOH- I would like anyone to name a new-production SS stereo amp of at least 60w/ch that you could buy for $560 or less, that would match the performance of a restored Citation 12... don't think you'll have too easy of a time with that...

<SNIP>

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of componentry available today that's just as well, or better made than vintage stuff. Also, the principal attribute we should be concerned with is sound quality, not build quality. Jolida's products are ruggedly built, and have markedly superior transformers (a component critical to tube equipment) to any vintage stuff. They are also point-to-point wiring.

Regarding the Citation 12, it was, as you say, about $100 in parts; the problem I had was intermittent, though, and I was not at all inclined to spend my time chasing down an intermittent with no test equipment and no expertise (in chasing down intermittents, that is...). The remainder of the repair charge was labor.

It is a great sounding amp, I grant you that. I plan on doing Nelson Pass' MOSFET mod to it.
 
Puma Cat said:
There's a lot of componentry available today that's just as well, or better made than vintage stuff. Also, the principal attribute we should be concerned with is sound quality, not build quality. Jolida's products are ruggedly built, and have markedly superior transformers (a component critical to tube equipment) to any vintage stuff. They are also point-to-point wiring.

Regarding the Citation 12, it was, as you say, about $100 in parts; the problem I had was intermittent, though, and I was not at all inclined to spend my time chasing down an intermittent with no test equipment and no expertise (in chasing down intermittents, that is...). The remainder of the repair charge was labor.

It is a great sounding amp, I grant you that. I plan on doing Nelson Pass' MOSFET mod to it.
Click to expand...

I very strongly disagree- what use is the BEST sounding tube amp in the world, if it DOESN'T WORK?

Reliability and build quality are a BIG deal. Especially in these economic conditions. Who wants to be replacing stuff over and over?

And I would like to see a test confirming that the transformers in the Jolida will perform as well as say, Chicago, Stancor, Freed, Peerless or other transformers in the vintage gear. I'd expect there not to be any significant improvement. Maybe not worse, but not really better, either...

As for the HK Cit12- in those, they're so simple and there's so few parts, that it's just simpler to just "shotgun" it, and forgo the diagnostic round-and-round. Will be better sounding and more reliable, as well as much more stable and free from artifacts (i.e, mine no longer even has a turn-on or turn-off thump!)...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Dang... not sure what I'm going to do. Vintage is scaring me at the moment because I just got a Dual turntable from my uncle and I'm going to have to get it repaired. I can tinker but I'm not a genius.
 
GordonW said:
I very strongly disagree- what use is the BEST sounding tube amp in the world, if it DOESN'T WORK?
Click to expand...

Gordon, with all due respect, you're automatically making an assumption that all modern gear will not work or be as reliable as vintage gear, and there is no data that has been presented to support that claim, it's supposition. There are a number of very, if not extemely, well-made components today, including Jolida, Prima Luna, Eastern Electric, Dorsun/Kussun, Viva, Antique Sound Lab, Joule Electric, George Wright Sound Lab, Cary, Conrad-Johnson, etc; I could go on and on. If anything, I would say, on average, that the overall quality of components made today is markedly higher than it was 30-35 years ago (the Citation 12 notwithstanding). The components, e.g. resistors and caps are better, the transformers are better, cabinets, switches, controls, cords and wiring are much higher quality overall. This is because today's high-end customer has a much higher expecation of build quality and quality components used in manufacturing than they did 30 years ago. I think if Bill at Uptown Audio, or Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio were to jump in here, they would agree.

There are many Jolida owners here and in other forums that have used their Jolidas reliably for 10-15 years. More to the point, there's a lot of vintage gear out there that needs a lot of repair and service work.
 
I have a Jolida 1501 hybrid integrated. 6 years old. It has stopped working, I sent it to Jolida, they "fixed" it (replaced the pre-amp board) and sent it back with the same problem. So I have to send it back again. They're good to talk to and I am sure I'll get the amp back and fixed sooner or later, but I hate going through all this.
 
I'm the second owner of a 302b, with zero problems in approx. 4 years. The amp is running all NOS tubes, Russian K40 coupling caps and is triode strapped.

This is a great amp for tweekers, with lots of modding potential.:thmbsp:

Jeff
 
I am sure you will be very happy with it, too.

Think about rolling some Genelex Gold Lions into it for the output stage if you decide to get it.
 
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