Jbl Joe
Well-Known Member
According to John Grado the 8MZ is .2 x .7 elliptical
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Is a Grado 8mz still worth it at $150?
- Thread starter crashbowman
- Start date
LESONAUSSI
Member
Just tell me which other major current cartridge brand is using titanium cantilevers. Boron, I've seen a lot, sapphire also, ruby is used mainly by retippers. Titanium has been tried in the past and given up. May be the engineers of the cartridges major brand have no hear. But for high-end stylus, the best were beryllium cantilevers. Production of beryllium cantilevers was stopped due to the toxicity of dust laden with beryllium. I've even heard not so expensive cartridges with diamond cantilevers. Not that impressive.
And Grado would be bad to a point that they didn't try it and decide to change their cantilever on their wooden bodies during the past 20 years, keeping loosing market shares ?
Some companies have done retipping for tens of years, some have designed their own cartridge, some have designed their tip (one has designed it's first tip 48 years ago) and when you ask then which is their stylus provider, they let you know it's name. Those know which type of cantilever and which type of stylus will fit better any cartridges (even if some are specialised on high-end brands only). The fact that Grado uses bonded stylii has made me thought that nude elliptical is great. One has to remember I was for cheap cartridges in the 80s. Anyway, esoteric choices can sometimes be lucky ones and I wish you so. But this won't improve the very deceptive first Sonata body. I have one I bought , is somewhere, lost in my house and that's for good.
LESONAUSSI
Member
Which one ? The current production ? Not according to Grado's client service... This Grado at it's best Just give them a try and ask them which is the size of the current production of 8MZ, MCZ, TLZ and XTZ. Ask the same question to the needle doctor or LP Gear, they don't know.
Do you know that cartridges bearing the Grado brand and model are no longer handled by Grado ? I'm wondering which company is handling the manufacturing of grado tips.
Lorenzo47
Super Member
Are you saying that Grado no longer makes their own cartridges? I think they do. Their stylus? Don't really know about that. The official Grado site https://www.4ourears.net/default.asp is administered by John's son.
LESONAUSSI
Member
Please read : I've never written that "Grado no longer makes their own cartridges"
I've written that cartridges bearing the Grado brand and model are no longer handled by Grado. I should have added "some cartridges" and added "up to a point they don't know which stylus is mounted on". I'm 100% sure.
And also I'm sure that Grado is no longer handling the manufacturing of SOME grado tips sold as GRADO's (in the same little plastic box).
I have highly praise for the late Joseph GRADO, no comment about Mr. John GRADO.
I thought the official GRADO site was this one : https://gradolabs.com/
marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
Lorenzo47
Super Member
I guess I was confused by your statement, "Do you know that cartridges bearing the Grado brand and model are no longer handled by Grado ?" Yes, the URL you provided is the company site. The one I provided https://www.4ourears.net/default.asp is also a Grado site that you can purchase from and is managed by John Grado's son.
Redd House
If she dont love me no more I know her sister will
Rich Grado.
LESONAUSSI
Member
Did I said I have heard this stylus combination ? No
Which combinaisons have your heard on those poor wooden sonata 0 bodies.
Tips and cantilevers are always mentioned, never the body. That's strange to me.
Now you're explaining me that bonded or nude doesn't matter.
All I've noticed is that some members making a huge amount of money buy retipping, servicing, uses forums to do marketing one for the other.
May be.
But I trust more people who invented tips almost 50 years ago, who are major retippers and have designed there own tip, or other major retippers who have also designed a whole range or cartridges (not in the USA).
I trust people who have been on retipping business for over 40 years, who have learnt more from their experience than from reading on internet.
That's my humble opinion.
Now I also read others opinion and there I find :
https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information
Which combinaisons have your heard on those poor wooden sonata 0 bodies.
Tips and cantilevers are always mentioned, never the body. That's strange to me.
Now you're explaining me that bonded or nude doesn't matter.
All I've noticed is that some members making a huge amount of money buy retipping, servicing, uses forums to do marketing one for the other.
May be.
But I trust more people who invented tips almost 50 years ago, who are major retippers and have designed there own tip, or other major retippers who have also designed a whole range or cartridges (not in the USA).
I trust people who have been on retipping business for over 40 years, who have learnt more from their experience than from reading on internet.
That's my humble opinion.
Now I also read others opinion and there I find :
https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information
LESONAUSSI
Member
Yes, it is a site where he sells Grado units. This is not official and lacks some many information such as the retipping fees for the woody or 4 stylii.
This is just an online shop not in any case Grado Labs (the manufacturer) official site.
Redd House
If she dont love me no more I know her sister will
Correct. I bought a new Gold2 from him that sounds very nice. He's was very helpful and customer friendly to me in responding to questions.
ETA: It is official in the sense that's it's Grado's internet retail outlet site.
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marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
Do you have a link to those. Grado used to sell styli to other reboxers
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Regardless where it's built or who builds it, is the current 8MZ worth the $150 price as an upgrade for a G2 cartridge?
I'm picking up a Harman Kardon T60 on Sunday. It comes with a Grado G2 cartridge that currently has a Grado Green stylus. I confess I've never heard a Grado before. So, I'll try it with the Green stylus first, to see if I like the general Grado sound and if I do, look to upgrade at some point. For the money, would the current 8MZ be the best upgrade option, or are there others, in the same or similar price range, that would be a better match for a G2 on a Harman Kardon T60 (8g effective mass tonearm).
Note: I am aware of the AVA mods and plan to do them, starting with moving power supply to an external enclosure.
I'm picking up a Harman Kardon T60 on Sunday. It comes with a Grado G2 cartridge that currently has a Grado Green stylus. I confess I've never heard a Grado before. So, I'll try it with the Green stylus first, to see if I like the general Grado sound and if I do, look to upgrade at some point. For the money, would the current 8MZ be the best upgrade option, or are there others, in the same or similar price range, that would be a better match for a G2 on a Harman Kardon T60 (8g effective mass tonearm).
Note: I am aware of the AVA mods and plan to do them, starting with moving power supply to an external enclosure.
marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
all of the styli should be 20CU now, the original G2 stylus was 35CU. Adding a bit of mass to the arm/headshell/cart and then running it on a test band album should show you what the resonate frequency is. The 8MZ and Gold 2 styli are the two best options. However, the G2 body preferred 22-24K loading in most systems. The MCZ stylus is better, but you'll need to run it 10-14K input. If this is an original green stylus, you'll get the "house sound" but you won't get much more from it.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Thanks for the detailed response. I may have misspoken on the Green stylus. I contacted the seller and he said he thought it was an F2 stylus, but wasn't sure (he wasn't at home to check). If so, would that be a good match, compliance wise, (assuming it has some life left in it) for a G2 on the HK tonearm?
marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
The F2 stylus was pretty nice. the numbering system on the F and G series was a bit different. The top F stylus was the F1, the F2 was a nudge behind it. Where as in the G series, the G1 was a hyperbolic stone, the G2 was 'true elipsoid". I believe VE has the G2 listed as 'shibata", it isn't. I'll search for an old thread topic on what stone should be on the F2
edit: second page, post #21
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/stylus-debate-grado-shure.427641/page-2
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Thanks, I appreciate your help!
In my research, I did find a photo of a datasheet that includes the F2+ and G2+. Not really sure how they compare to the non + models, but the F2+ is listed as a "Super Elliptical" and the G2+ is listed as a "Twin Tip" (whatever that is).
marcmorin
RIP 1953-2020
Wow, I've never seen that type of paperwork from grado. especially on the recommended tracking forces and CU ratings.Thanks, I appreciate your help!
In my research, I did find a photo of a datasheet that includes the F2+ and G2+. Not really sure how they compare to the non + models, but the F2+ is listed as a "Super Elliptical" and the G2+ is listed as a "Twin Tip" (whatever that is).
the photos in the link to the previous post should show you what they look like, and stylus names have always been a company name for a cut. however, grado has bounced around quite a bit on "twin tip" and other of their names. the original 8MZ, and MCZ stylus were both listed as twin tip, but looked nothing alike.
