Is audio gear designed to be disposable?

bluesky said:
You can't even get a 'real' pair of pliers that 'feel right' anymore, let alone have them work correct.
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As someone that works with hand tools for a living on ships. You get what you pay for and I am calling :bs: ;)

I have lots of nice, new with in the last 10yrs, pliers.

But to each their own :thumbsup:

And my grandfather's and pops only bought professional tools, so I know nice old tools from the 40's on.
 
Everything is built to a price point. It's not intentionally designed to fail after a certain time, but it's inevitable. Worse, everything today will some some microprocessor or similar complex/proprietary chip and the availability of those is always limited. Thus, you soon can't fix it. The final nail in the coffin is that labor costs are so high compared to assembly costs, that fixing almost any modern consumer product isn't economically feasible. At the higher end this is less true, so a bit of comfort there.

Someday my huge collection of thru-hole resistors will be worth a fortune... not!
 
Even the once great companies have obsolescence in mind now. I have 50 year old Keithley, Fluke and HP meters that are still spot on after a gentle cleaning of their excellent switches. You now see many of their newer model meters for sale all the time with dead displays, error codes, flaky controls and obsolete chips. One thing for sure these days is that if you want quality that will last you decades your gonna pay through the nose. Plenty of the blame goes to the changing formulas of the components and materials being put inside.

Rode in my brother in laws new truck with his fancy two foot wide display, anyone wanna bet how soon those touch screen displays go out on him during a trip. We all know from experience flat panels and touch screen devices crap out sooner rather than later so why use them where such critical info is needed.
 
petes'picks said:
Rode in my brother in laws new truck with his fancy two foot wide display, anyone wanna bet how soon those touch screen displays go out on him during a trip. We all know from experience flat panels and touch screen devices crap out sooner rather than later so why use them where such critical info is needed.
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Flat panel displays might be better than the gauges that came right before them. 10 year old instrument clusters need repair all the time. The stepper motors in GM's are notorious. I have several 10 year old laptops that with screens that still work great. So I think the jury might still be out on that one.
 
Coolhandjjl said:
A wider perspective:

So I guess audio gear is meant to be disposable, unlike real estate. If your money was in real estate, things would be handled quite differently. Hence the term a ‘real estate’. Everything else is considered chattles.
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Well I have land and I am building a new house. The price of land is not decreasing ever, but even a new home will need repairs and maintenance. I have little notion of what it's value might be in 30 years time.

As for audio gear, all I can say is that the price of old speakers is pretty high(always was around where I live) and some cassette decks have tripled in asking price in the last 7 years.

Ultimately, the value of real estate and consumer goods is tied to the state of the local economy and whether there are any wars going on. When people are either poor or feeling for their lives, only life itself has any value at all.
 
Bob in WI said:
Nothing wrong w fine chattles tho.
I'd get more if I could afford them & would be perfectly happy w that Montblanc pen that was dissed earlier.

:)
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You will be happy if the piston works and the cork doesn't need replacing. Buy new or a restored pen to avoid any issues.

A wiser suggestion would be a Pelikan, same thing but better build quality(and lower price).
 
petes'picks said:
Even the once great companies have obsolescence in mind now. I have 50 year old Keithley, Fluke and HP meters that are still spot on after a gentle cleaning of their excellent switches. You now see many of their newer model meters for sale all the time with dead displays, error codes, flaky controls and obsolete chips. One thing for sure these days is that if you want quality that will last you decades your gonna pay through the nose. Plenty of the blame goes to the changing formulas of the components and materials being put inside.

Rode in my brother in laws new truck with his fancy two foot wide display, anyone wanna bet how soon those touch screen displays go out on him during a trip. We all know from experience flat panels and touch screen devices crap out sooner rather than later so why use them where such critical info is needed.
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All true.
 
Brian1970 said:
Flat panel displays might be better than the gauges that came right before them. 10 year old instrument clusters need repair all the time. The stepper motors in GM's are notorious. I have several 10 year old laptops that with screens that still work great. So I think the jury might still be out on that one.
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The manufacturer decides how long the displays will work. I assume that for cars made today they wouldn't want them to last more than a decade, maybe.

Laptop screens can continue to work just fine 20 years later, but my impression is that car electronics are somehow more clumsy in design and build quality, I don't enjoy the digital panel and gauges in my Mercedes Arctros, I prefer the old style. Less bling more function.

PS the instrument panel in my dad's 1995 Audi A4 needed replacement after +25 years of operation, the replacement cost at a junkyard was $30. We're happy with that.
I won't vouch for anything made in the last decade though.
 
bluesky said:
This has been something I've really thought about in depth already - like so many of us 'old timers' have.

Seems to me: Everything after the year 1989 has a 'built-in shelf life' and it is garbage right out of the box - right from the start. Drives me nuts - it really does!!

My NAD CD player lasted me 10 years. Seems like NOTHING lasts longer than 10 now, if that. It's ALL JUNK.

Want something well-built? Go to the Goodwill, Salvation Army, local thrift stores, & especially garage sales 7 estate sales. That's where the 'excellent quality' old stuff is, and the 'old stuff' w o r k s. And it lasts 'forever'. You can't even get a 'real' pair of pliers that 'feel right' & work hassle-free anymore. The last thing I want to do is do a job and fight or struggle with using the dam Chinese Craftsman pliers from Lowes. It's all just too much. Find a pair of real ones at the Salvation Army or Goodwill, 99 cents - you WIN!!, & they will last FOREVER. Put them in your will to your nephew, and he will use them all his life too.

It's pretty sad really. :dunno:

I'm sticking with Vintage Equipment - whenever possible - nothing new. I really do try to Never buy new anymore.

My 2010 'not used much at all' NAD CD player crashed out after 10 years, so after 3 months without a CD player, I gave up and just went to Goodwill and bought a 'like new' blackface Sony CD player for $7 and it sounds 'seriously BETTER' than the NAD when it was new. (I did have to buy a 'like new' remote off eBay for $18. No problem.) I just got lucky on that find. This Sony sounds wonderful and runs totally quiet and smoothly. I think it is seriously like almost new, if not new! Just got lucky. Not a scratch or fingerprint on it. New.

My 1970 Big Box speakers with AlNiCo magnets have worked just finek and sound great for 54 years without any problems. My wife bought a new pair of CVs that lasted 5 years, then the surrounds rotted out. Then I saw the dog piss on one of the woofers, I don't blame him at all, I hated them too, and gave them to my brother for 'whatever' and he used them in his 'bands practice room' for stools to sit on, and they just collapsed - JUNK cabs. The wife then bought some New Bose 701s - you know, she had to have BOSE! I told her - DON'T DO IT! Pure JUNK - and immediately we had problems with 'NO SPARE PARTS' avaliable... THANK YOU BOSE for nothing. You know, it's like -- You Bought them - it's Your Fault, it's YOUR Problem. Bose. Nephew bought a Bose headset, the super think wire broke to the headset - right in the garbage, can't fix it.

You can't even buy a broom that works anymore. Bought a new push broom from Lowes, total Junk, it fell apart, threw it in the garbage. Then bought a regular sweep broom (what could possibly go wrong with that? - it's a sweep broom!) and it lasted, no joke, about '20 minutes' and the handle fell apart. I didn't take it back to Lowes - I should of. Would of spent more on gas that the broom was worth. I'm just tired of taking all this 'broken brand new' garbage back - so I just quit buying most anhything & everything new which is all 'broken brand new' junk. And "don't look back".

Read this and learn: Then there was the New Whirlpool refrigerator - what a piece of NOISY sht JUNK that was. Don't EVER buy a Whirlpool unless you want to live in LOUD NOISE. Got my money back after fighting with them hard for 3 weeks. I wouldn't back off and they gave up - got tired of hearing me scream, and I was screaming!!!!!! And it goes on and on and on. It's all 'Chinese Junk'. It's all 'broken brand new :bs:'.

Then... the NEW 'Trane' Air Conditioner. A $8000.00 seriously expensive ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE. Unacceptable depression followed. It went BAD. Ended up losing $1500 more on that one. Unacceptable.

Went to my cousin's house. He had an old beat-up well used electric drill his dad had since 1950. It looks old as dirt. Even the 'style' looks super old, like one of the first ever made (which actually really got my attention!!!) I He didn't want it so I asked him if I could have it for remembrance of my Uncle, and he said sure! I plugged it in - Works perfectly/flawlessly - 74 years old and hadn't been plugged in since 1975! The ' REAL ' Craftsman, the real 'stuff'.

The old stuff works!!

Hope someone finds this amusing, or educational.
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I was born in 1989 and I agree with everything said above. My own experience has confirmed this.

PS Does anyone know who makes the best brooms these days? Maybe DYI is the answer, just get one from the store and repair it before you start using it? :)
 
Powertech said:
There is a lot of gear around today which is designed to be manufactured, but not designed to be repaired.

My own preferences are:-

1. Not to buy anything where the service manual is not made available.
2. Buy equipment which can be repaired/modified/updated etc.
3, Shy away from gear which is full of multilayered circuit boards and surface mount components (not always possible these days)

At least all of this makes it possible to keep stuff alive for the future in this throwaway world we live in.

This is also the reason I keep away from modern cars. Difficult to work on and extremely expensive to repair.
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Good answer. Too bad they don't make brand new old cars, ey? Many people would buy them.

I think the people who care about repairability and dependability just buy old stuff and repair them while they can. For me this is also a big money saver.
 
RVT1K said:
I see moving parts as the most likely source of problems so things like CD players and tape decks are more likely to have problems in the future than an amp. That doesn't mean designed to be disposable but they won't live forever either.

Based on my experience, anything with a relay is another source of potential failure.

There are also a zillion discussions about electrolytic caps degrading over time.
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They can all be repaired as long as parts are available. Good thing most cassette decks need little maintenance to keep them running.
As for cd players, I hear most of the time it's not the laser that fails, meaning they too can be kept running via lubing etc. Just maintenance.
 
GChief said:
As someone that works with hand tools for a living on ships. You get what you pay for and I am calling :bs: ;)

I have lots of nice, new with in the last 10yrs, pliers.

But to each their own :thumbsup:

And my grandfather's and pops only bought professional tools, so I know nice old tools from the 40's on.
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it used to be that the difference between professional grade and consumer grade tools was less obvious, but American consumers have consistently demanded that things cost less and less. Our need for instant gratification has acclimated us to accepting lower quality goods as a standard, then we get upset when our cheap things break or break or don't last as they did a few generations ago. We have confused quantity for quality and most don't really care, which explains for the popularity of Walmart and Harbor Freight stores and apropos to our interests, Chi-Fi audio products.
 
rochester21 said:
Well i think today at least you pay for features and sound quality, durability would be more or less the same. That's just my impression.

PS Montblanc pens are difficult to service, a Pilot Custom is much cheaper, writes the same and service is very easy-less parts and no custom tools needed.
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I think it depends on which end of the spectrum you’re shopping. Check out Gryphon amplifiers for instance. Really no features to speak of, focus is on sound quality and build quality.

re the pens: I buy Lamy fountains to write and many brands, including Montblanc for events where there’s a bit of ceremony to the signature, such as signing large contracts, boat/car purchases, etc. Just a bit of fun and a little flex to mark the occasion.
 
Yodathedog said:
Much more disposable now than before. But that tends to apply to many things, especially appliances. Great performance, but not built to last.
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Just ditched a 3YO LG dishwasher that wasn't worth the cost to repair it. It was falling apart regardless.
Companies have strengths. LG makes great TVs as does Samsung. Their appliances are not well regarded.
If I had researched better, I could have avoided a costly & inconvenient error.
 
I would guess that 90% of all consumer products are designed to be replaced. It drives me crazy to think about. Everything from your car, home appliances, electronics, etc. This is what the average consumer wants. Cheap junk from Walmart or dropped right at your door by Amazon. Yet everyone still cries about the state of the environment and plastic waste. Manufacturers and large corporations love this obsession with all things disposable because it leads to huge profits. I learned early in life that fixing things to keep them useful is much more rewarding. The problem now is finding things that are repairable. I would bet the environmental impact of my 50 year old vehicle is way less over the life of the vehicle than your basic plastic piece of **** that cost over $60,000 and will be in the junkyard in 10 years. How about cell phones? Everyone has to have the newest one and good luck getting 5 years out of your Galaxy or iPhone. I work in the semi conductor industry and know what it takes to make the chips in these phones. Huge amounts of water and toxic chemicals are used plus enough electricity to run a city. Think about all the stuff with semiconductors that go in the trash every day. Every time I see a twenty something ranting about the environment all I can see is a fool in plastic clothes and a big plastic electric car. But there is a huge amount of money to be made, so here we are.

I could go on forever on this subject. I recently repaired a $3500 refrigerator. The last one was finally moved to appliance heaven after 30 plus years of service. And I'll never buy a printer again...
 
This is a PSA... please refer to post #23 and # 38 ... now back to u'r regular scheduled programming of B&M :thumbsup:
 
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