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Is Home Theater On Its Way Out?

Fishead

Fishead

Gone fishin' Steada just wishin'
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I know one can still find home theater receivers from the likes of Yamaha, Denon, Marantz....however, finding a "pre-pro" seems a bit daunting from the major players of higher tier components. I purchased my Rotel RSP-1570 in 2007 (man, time flies....) along with the power amp, a RMB-1095 and am looking for something newer and better while still providing the flexibility of this setup. Mainly, I really enjoy using BYPASS mode, where the incoming signal is sent straight analog to only the front left and right pre-outs which allows me to send the signal from my phono stage to any line-level input (I have chosen the CD input, e.g.) which then goes directly to my power amp. When I get really frisky, I bi-amp my B&W 803S speakers using four of the five available amps in the 1095 and it really, really sounds good but that's a bunch of work so I usually just power them bi-wired from just the front left and right amps in the 1095.

The BIG, HUGE convenience with this RSP-1570 processor is that it also has 3 ZONE outputs that each also just pass a straight analog full frequency signal which I am using 2 of to use my powered subs with, the volume of which can be controlled from my listening position using the remote. Most understand how crucial having this ability is as the sub levels, when set properly, truly do make the sound "pop."

If I want to watch a bluray or dvd concert, it's a simple matter of just switching to the "MULTI INPUT" which receives the 5.1 analog outputs from my Oppo BDP-105 and I'm good to go. Or, I can also use the HDMI output from my Oppo to the HDMI input on the 1570 but my ears tell me the DAC in the Oppo outshines the one in the Rotel, so I generally just use the MULTI INPUT.

Looking at the Rotel website, I don't see a single home theater processor available any longer. Crutchfield still has a few of the more recent offerings available but they are either receivers, which I don't want/need, or processors that no longer have the ZONE outputs so no love there.....

I looked at Classe, which paired with B&W after parting ways with Rotel, but I don't see a single home theater processor nor receiver on that site either. Am I mistaken? Or, is home theater now just finding itself as an afterthought in the mid-tier audio market and populated with not much more than a few, rather entry level models?

I really hope I'm wrong, but someone please help me understand what is happening? Am I just not looking in the right places? Or, do I need to bite the bullet and just do 2 channel home theater but what would be the fun of that??? Besides, many of the concerts I have don't even offer a 2 channel LPCM audio track.....only DD5.1 or DTS 5.1 so I'd have to do a mixdown and those aren't very exciting to listen to/watch.....

So, anyone have any suggestions for a processor that will do what I'm needing or am I SOL? Thanks in advance amigos.....

PS - I hope I have been clear about not wanting a receiver, but a pre/processor instead.....
 
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Marantz still sells a bunch. They're not cheap.

ETA: as does McIntosh. Prices weren't listed on the main page, but I assume my comment on the Marantz prices applies double to Macs.
ETA2: my several year old Pioneer Elite SC-LX701 AVR has dual sub outputs, with independent level control for each. You shouldn't need to use the Zone2/3 outputs for this, at least for higher end components.
 
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swechsler said:
Marantz still sells a bunch. They're not cheap.

ETA: as does McIntosh. Prices weren't listed on the main page, but I assume my comment on the Marantz prices applies double to Macs.
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i picked up a used marantz sr 5007 5 or 6 years ago for a pretty decent price.

i use it to power my 2 front height speakers

the other 5 speakers are powered by marantz ma500 monoblocks.

7.1( well, 2 subs) is more than enough for this guy.

i'm not getting crazy with atmos....dts master hd does me just fine.
 
swechsler said:
has dual sub outputs
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Yes, so does my Rotel BUT those can only be used when running in digital mode on the Rotel.....when in BYPASS mode, or straight analog, there is no signal from those two SUB outputs and I've found that to be the case with all the HT receivers/processors that have the BYPASS mode available. Otherwise, why play vinyl if you are just going to convert it to digital so you can use the sub outputs??? I prefer to stay analog throughout the signal path.....thanks for your observation!
 
swechsler said:
Marantz still sells a bunch.
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swechsler said:
as does McIntosh.
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I looked at the Marantz offerings.....yes, not cheap (but also not going to do what I need as they have zero zone outputs that carry a straight analog stereo signal.) (Edit: actually, looked closer and they do. Sorry for misspeaking here.....so they may indeed be an option).

I haven't looked into McIntosh yet but thinking I may be running into the same problem, which is that if you are going to use the SUB outputs on any of these, you will need to be in some form of digital mode.....
jayvis said:
Check out Anthem. And no, they aren't cheap.

AnthemAV® | High-Performance Amplifiers, Receivers & Processors

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www.anthemav.com www.anthemav.com
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Yes, I did look at these but if memory serves, same problem there.....only one ZONE output....hmmmmm, although it does show a "LINE" output next to the ZONE output. That might just work, have to research further.....THANKS!
 
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Fishead said:
Otherwise, why play vinyl if you are just going to convert it to digital so you can use the sub outputs???
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While I don't really listen to analog any more, I agree with this sentiment. If you're converting to digital (and I think you're right, all subwoofer outputs on AV equipment probably require A/D and D/A conversion), you might as well just use a digital source. Chances are the company that did the mastering has a way better A/D converter than you do.
 
Yeah, I agree.....long story, but when I first started down this journey in 2012 and listening to records again, I mistakenly used my 1570 in exactly that way.....plugged the phonostage into one of the inputs, switched to 5 channel stereo and thought I was listening to an analog source while I was actually putting the signal through the ADC, the 5 channel DSP mode, and then the DAC. When I figured it out, it was like lifting a blanket from in front of the speakers, everything just opened up and I was amazed! Don't get me wrong though, I have plenty of SACDs and DVD-Audio discs that sound FABULOUS from the Oppo, but the record (PHONO) playback really suffers when you put it through that ADC/DAC process.
 
The most reasonably priced HT processor I know of is the Emotiva XMC-1 (7.2). I admit to having a biased opinion. I have its predecessor, the UMC-200. It's just 7.1.

Emotiva is also currently selling the XMC-2 (9.1.6) for Dolby Atmos and DTS-X. Along with the extra channels the price is dramatically higher than the XMC-1.
 
Thanks folks, I will follow up on these. The zone outputs will invariably be analog so that's a real possibility on the McIntosh. I know someone who has an Emotiva setup that I can reach out to and find out how he's doing things. He also just happens to have B&W speakers, so will be able to speak to how these work together.....that Anthem gear sure looks nice!
 
At one time wasn't it the University of Michigan who kept track of audio sales. Maybe they have the clear answer.
 
Actually, I was intending the question to produce some information about what is still available in the way of gear as I think I've seen a move away from home theater offerings and wondered why? But, I do have some ideas in terms of what to look into now so that's a good start.

I think what @GChief mentioned about sound bars and subs makes a lot of sense though......why mess with all that complicated gear, wires, speakers, cutting holes in walls etc. etc. when you can just hook up a soundbar with a sub and have a pretty ok experience......kind of like the simplicity of listening to music on your phone with earbuds.....it works for a lot if not most people.

I'm not so lucky though. For me, it's so much more about the sound. I can enjoy practically any style of music if it's really well-recorded over a good system in a good room......not so the other way around though, you'll see me hightailing it no matter what the music if the sound is bad.
 
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I know you aren't looking for a receiver, but you may want to rethink that. I've had pre-pros from Onkyo, Integra, Yamaha, and Marantz. I've also had TOTL receivers from all of those brands, along with Denon. I've found little to no difference in sound quality between using the preamp outs from a pre-pro or a TOTL receiver using the preamp outs to various amps to power the speakers, from Emotiva to Outlaw Crown and Rotel, among others.

My home setup is 2.0 channel now, and will remain that. I may pick up a subwoofer to add some LFE from my 103 Oppo to my 2.0 setup, some day. But that's the only change I have in mind.
 
Knucklehead said:
I know you aren't looking for a receiver, but you may want to rethink that.
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I agree......and have actually considered a receiver and doing as you say, using the pre-outs. I have yet to research this though so I'm not particularly aware of the versatility of this approach, i.e. how many pre-outs might there be and zone outs etc. etc. Rotel actually has one that Crutchfield still sells but a quick look at the rear of it did not show me what I need......so, thank you for the suggestion amigo. I think this could become very exciting! And, expensive......
 
You can do some research on www.accessories4less.com. They show pics of the back of all the receivers. They also have some refurbed pre-pros for sale as well. I'm partial to Yamaha, I have had very good luck with the brand. Onkyo/Integra - not so much. Denon and Marantz have been good to me as well. I'm not familiar with most of the upper line of receivers these days, I quit that when I reverted back to 2 channel. My last AVR was a Yamaha RX-A2070 which I bought new, and sold after three years of sitting there! Still worked good, just wasn't getting used much.

If you look at the mid level and higher receivers most of them have a full complement of preamp outs. They usually mark them in white or silver color to make them stand out. Pretty easy to spot once you know what to look for.

Are you interested in Atmos, the 'god' speakers as I call them? You'll be looking at a receiver with at least a 5.2.2 designation if so. They also come in 7.2.2, 7.4.2, and so on. You might also be interested in one of the pre-pros from Emotiva. Their RMC-1 seems to be quite popular, and can be had used for well under their asking price.

Here's a pic of the back of the current TOTL Yamaha, the RX-A8A 11.2 channel AVR. the silver in the middle of the back panel is the preamp out jacks. It also has 3 zones.

x480-19582.png
 
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Knucklehead said:
Are you interested in Atmos
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Not in the least.....I'm pretty OK with just 5.2 channels given my room and other considerations. Thank you @Knucklehead (my father's favorite name for me, when he was complimenting me......):rflmao:for the description of the Yamaha RX-A8A, very helpful!

Looking at the Marantz AV 10 and AMP 10 at the moment......might do everything I need for them to, along with the AMP 10 providing me with a bi-amp opportunity for my front left and right 803S's which, as I mentioned earlier, takes the sound up another notch for sure! Starting to hone the choices.....
 
For get about HT and buy a pair of Apples new Goggles. No more large screens or surround systems. Just slip them on your head and sit in a darkened room or space. Thats all we will need. Maybe a sub woofer or two to augment the the sound from the Apple goggles. Are we ready for this. Wouldn't it be neat if we could recieve advanced Blue tooth sound and images directly to the brain. Just close our eyes and get the best most realistic images and sound ever. Wouldn't hackers have fun with that!
 
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