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JBL d130 or Altec 604d in Mcintosh system in small room

Z

zbarbera

New Member
Currently my office system is a Micro Seiki DD-40 (will be an Empire 208 once I finish refurbishing it), Mcintosh MX110 and MC240 with a pair of Klipsch Heresy IIs.

I've begun to itch for an upgrade on the Heresy IIs and have been casting about for something in the right time frame. I was leaning toward the 2 in the subject. 12" Tannoy Golds are also in the mix.

I think the Altecs would be spectacular but I am very limited in how large a cabinet I can build. I'd probably top out around 7.5 cu ft. Which led me to look at building a JBL d130 2 way. I can build a c36 or c38 cabinet and it would fit the room very well.

Anyone have any thoughts how they would compare/contrast? WiIl the JBL really shine in a box the size of the c36/c38?

I'm sure the Altec would be an upgrade on the Heresy IIs. But will the JBL setup be enough of an upgrade to make it worthwile?
 
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There’s actually a nice pair local to me. But again with them I am worried I can’t get the size they need to be great
 
Do the Altecs. 7.5 cu ft is more than enough for those drivers. Actually, if you were to run WinISD, you would be suprised how small it says to make the cabinets. WinISD puts the 604E at ~1.6 cu ft tuned to 55.5 Hz for the flattest response.

Tuning 7.5 cu ft to 37 Hz gets it down to 40 Hz, -3 dB.
 
Duplexes.
Don't expect too much of them (in any size cabinet) in terms of bass extension -- but what you'll get out of them is (at least relative to my taste) pretty sublime.

DSC_8060 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
(the image above is distorted due to the use of an ultra-wide-angle lens in the photo above)
http://www.wardsweb.org/Billfort/


Full disclosure -- I've actually moved on from my 604Es, but not because I didn't love them. The one drawback to the classic Duplexes is a small "sweet spot" (I don't know about the later morphs). I fixed that over the course of about a year's experimentation.

DSC_0938 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

DSC_8290 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
(during the change-out)
The 'woofer' section of a Duplex is kinda sorta equivalent to a 515B. Kinda. Sorta.
 
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mhardy6647 said:
Duplexes.
Don't expect too much of them (in any size cabinet) in terms of bass extension -- but what you'll get out of them is (at least relative to my taste) pretty sublime
Click to expand...

You guys are mostly selling me on the Altecs. One thing is there is no room for finding the sweet spot. It's my office which is pretty stuffed with records, my desk work and home computers. They're going where they go and that is it. I'll be pretty close to them.

Hm, as for bass, I wonder if they could handle the Mcintosh MQ101 I have. It's just been sitting around feeling lonely. I need to do some homework...

I have a space like that in my basement but it's got a pair of Quad ESL 57s and some Vienna Acoustic Bachs (that need to be upgraded to something capable of really handling a Marantz 250). And there is no way the Quads would work in my office. Way too wide. And I don't want both tube systems in my basement... First world problems, I suppose.
 
They're not made for low bass, nor for high power handling (although @bowtie427ss has a more sanguine view of their capabilities than do I -- and I am in no position to doubt him! I just get nervous with kind of expensive and very sensitive drivers). They were made for nearfield, so, in that sense, you're in their wheelhouse.

These lads listened to themselves on Duplexes (albeit, apparently, 605s) all of the time, for instance. :)

beatlesinstudio 2 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
 
Over 605s Elvis and Ricky Nelson sound right in the room ( and yes, I know RCA used their own monitors and playback speakers).

F609D2B1-0BA3-43FE-AFD7-391674F78DA7.jpeg
 
No duplexes in this session.

But, if you look real careful you can spot the Altec playback monitors in the room.

Hint, there's 3 of them, and the engineers decided the room wasn't too small.

FWIW, you will find many accounts that claim this video was taken at the MGM studios in Vegas. That is hogwash. That video was shot at Capitol studios in Culver City.

 
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Don't overlook the Tannoy option. ( Speaking from 20 miles from their factory.)
Not just as fussy about box size , pretty bombproof too.
 
zbarbera said:
I think the Altecs would be spectacular but I am very limited in how large a cabinet I can build. I'd probably top out around 7.5 cu ft.
Click to expand...

toddalin said:
Do the Altecs. 7.5 cu ft is more than enough for those drivers. Actually, if you were to run WinISD, you would be suprised how small it says to make the cabinets. WinISD puts the 604E at ~1.6 cu ft tuned to 55.5 Hz for the flattest response.

Tuning 7.5 cu ft to 37 Hz gets it down to 40 Hz, -3 dB.
Click to expand...
Let's see the 604D's in question.

Parametrically, early 604D's are significantly different from later 604D's with the doped cloth surround.

If they're early, paper hinged D's, they'll probably sim much closer to a 604C.
 
bowtie427ss said:
Let's see the 604D's in question.

Parametrically, early 604D's are significantly different from later 604D's with the doped cloth surround.

If they're early, paper hinged D's, they'll probably sim much closer to a 604C.
Click to expand...
The D morph, to me, has always been a mystery wrapped in an enigma (to quote Churchill, way out of context).
 
I've had D130s in my house for over 60-years. I still have the first one. I loved them for maybe 40-years and then lusted for later JBLs with more punch which I now have. That doesn't mean I've lost respect for the D130 but what little deep bass it is capable of reproducing is enhanced by a larger cabinet. Mine are in C35s and I also have C37s. I love their tone particularly on orchestral strings or guitar, or jazz. If you want more low-end look for 130A. Folded horn cabinets make a big difference here, too, but the 130A will outperform the D130 in just about any 2-way you could configure (LE175DLH).
 
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BMWCCA said:
I've had D130s in my house for over 60-years. I still have the first one. I loved them for maybe 40-years and then lusted for later JBLs with more punch which I now have. That doesn't mean I've lost respect for the D130 but what little deep bass it is capable of reproduction is enhanced by a larger cabinet. Mine are in C35s and I also have C37s. I love their tone particularly on orchestral strings or guitar, or jazz. If you want more low-end look for 130A. Folded horn cabinets make a big difference here, too, but the 130A will outperform the D130 in just about any 2-way you could configure (LE175DLH).
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Thanks for the advice on those. If I take that route I’ll definitely look to move to the 130A. Prices on fleabay seem fairly reasonable, too.
 
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D 130 is a very fast woofer, but doesn't have great bass below 60 HZ or so unless in the right cabinet is specifically tuned. And then 40 HZ is definitely where it quits. The 604 with rebuilt crossover and new Diaphragms is a great speaker. Though Great Plains recommends a 9.6 cu ft cabinet for their current versions I have seen and heard older 604's work very well in 6 cu ft boxes tuned correctly, placed at ear height agains a wall or retuned to be placed in a corner. They will easily reach 30 HZ. The newer diaphragms handle more power but with close to 98 db sensitivity that isn't an issue. 30 watts should be all you ever need in a very large space. In your case you will be under 1 watt almost all the time. Some folks like to use absorption inside the box to prevent standing waves. I tend to agree but you dont want to use to much. Some times a 1 inch curtain hanging behind the woofer is all you need. I use to use the cotton mix batting Bozak used in their cabinets. Just the single curtain nothing more. Did the same thing to a friends Cornwall I. But thats a secret.
 
Got my 604d pair today, from a member here. Hi Ed! Happily they were in cabinets. From the pics and description I wasn’t 100% sure they were still in cabs but it all worked out. 5.6 cu ft. So, supposedly smaller than most recommend but I’ll play them for a while like that and see how I feel about them.

Someone on the Altec User Board worked up some plans to get me close to 8 cu ft utilizing the space I have available, so that may be a future project. But for now I’m over the moon happy. I think this should be the last setup I ever need for pure enjoyment listening. Unless something like a pair of Altec 755a or a Marantz 7C falls into my lap.

The basement systems have some room for swapping around, though. So, I can remain restless there!
 
zbarbera said:
Someone on the Altec User Board worked up some plans to get me close to 8 cu ft utilizing the space I have available, so that may be a future project.
Click to expand...
Most Altec enthusiasts owe Greg a debt of gratitude. If they haven't received the benefit of GM's knowledge and generosity directly at one time or another, they've gotten it by proxy through other enthusiasts.

zbarbera said:
But for now I’m over the moon happy. I think this should be the last setup I ever need for pure enjoyment listening.
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Long known for their extensive and thorough engineering, in most cases there is a degree of difficulty in making a good Altec driver sound bad. You actually have to work at it a bit. ;)
 
Ok. So, the final system in here will be the Mcintosh MX110 and MC240 eventually, But for the moment it is a Micro Seiki DD40, Marantz 2235 and Marantz 8b. I bought some 14" legs, to get them up to ear level, that will be here this weekend. But right now I've got a first pressing Mono pet sounds on and I'm not finding a great lack of bass from the 5.6 cu ft cabinets they are in. They sound amazing. Very happy with the choice I made, indeed I may have found my forever speakers.
 
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