jbl s99 lancers

[ekmanning5]

I found a pair of JBL S99 Lancers today. The cabs are a bit beat up and one tweeter does not appear to be working. I suppose I'll clean them up and deoxit the watchamacallit knobs in the back tonight. Anything I should look for inside as far as the tweeter goes? And how does one remove this tweeter? Are these tweeters available? Should I invest the time and effort with these? Would they be a good match with an Eico HF-81? :scratch2:

 

[Zilch]

I found a pair of JBL S99 Lancers today. The cabs are a bit beat up and one tweeter does not appear to be working. I suppose I'll clean them up and deoxit the watchamacallit knobs in the back tonight. Anything I should look for inside as far as the tweeter goes? And how does one remove this tweeter? Are these tweeters available? Should I invest the time and effort with these? Would they be a good match with an Eico HF-81? :scratch2:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical Sheet/S99 ATHENA ts.pdf

You have acquired a pair of one of the best and most versatile woofers available. If they have not already been refoamed, they will need that, as the original Lansaloy surrounds (ivory-colored) are likely hardened from age. You'll not get decent bass response from them until that is remedied. Use "Search" to find several discussions of S99 and LE14A refoam in this forum.

The mounting screws for the LE20-1 tweeter are behind the black foil covering the face, which may be carefully removed using a heat gun or hair dryer and a thin blade. Be careful not to crease the foil if you intend to reuse it. Neither new units nor factory replacement diaphragms are available for LE20-1. If one is actually bad and your intent is to restore, you'll have to replace it with a used one. They are quite common.

So much for restoration; on to upgrade:

LE20-1s hardly even qualify as tweeters by contemporary standards. They roll off significantly in the very high frequencies they might be assumed as purporting to reproduce:

If you want vintage sound with rolled-off highs, that's LE20(-1) in spades.

Can they be replaced with modern tweeters? Yes, probably, but modern tweeters which play competently down to S99's 2 kHz crossover frequency are rare. I believe I have further demonstrated in other threads here that, with respect to tweeters, in detail, "Plug 'n' Play" is somewhat of a mythical pursuit in vintage systems.

There's also another problem: S99 is one of several vintage JBL systems which earned for LE14A an undeserved reputation as haviing "muddy" midrange, and the reason is that it is misapplied in these systems. It's a large woofer with a heavily Aquaplas-damped cone for which 2 kHz is a lengthy stretch. LE14A is most suitably used up to 1 kHz, i.e., an octave lower. It can be pushed a bit above that, but not to 2 kHz.

So, what is the answer? You've got a system with a tweeter which plays neither high nor low enough mated to a woofer that doesn't play high enough to match it. Member Jackgiff made them into three-ways here:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119471

I have a more radical approach:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7671

As an extension of that concept, both Jackgiff and member Duffinator have completed projects incorporating LE14As and PT waveguides in other cabinets:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117212

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=136160

Member Mxlews is using LE14As as subs in Altec Madrid cabinets, though he has not yet shown us that project here.


Otherwise, restore them and enjoy what they are.... :thmbsp:

 

[dc270]

Regarding the surrounds- from my recent experience I did try using automotive brake fluid to soften them up. It did work, but all to well- when I went to measure the woofers the original design parameters were off by 20% or more.
I ended up replacing the surrounds with the new grey type available from several people. Just be careful here as the original foams were top cone mounted and removal of the old surround is tricky to do with out harming the cone! The new surrounds should get you back within 10% of factory specs.
Zilch does have a point about that tweeter, in it's day it was OK, but today there are many more that are much better. My LE 14a's were from the Lancer 99 also, I am rebuilding them into a 3 way "MTM" design using dual Eminence 6.5" mids and an Eminence APT 80 horn tweeter. That is a great woofer and will integrate well into a modern design with a bit of effort. Good luck!
DC

 

[Zilch]

My LE 14a's were from the Lancer 99 also, I am rebuilding them into a 3 way "MTM" design using dual Eminence 6.5" mids and an Eminence APT 80 horn tweeter. That is a great woofer and will integrate well into a modern design with a bit of effort. Good luck!
DC

Whoa! Sounds like a cool project! :thmbsp:

We'll want pics, of course, for the AK dossier of S99 adaptive reuse.... :yes:

[I'm cookin' a new project with them here myself.... ]

 

[jackgiff]

I found a pair of JBL S99 Lancers today. The cabs are a bit beat up and one tweeter does not appear to be working. I suppose I'll clean them up and deoxit the watchamacallit knobs in the back tonight. Anything I should look for inside as far as the tweeter goes? And how does one remove this tweeter? Are these tweeters available? Should I invest the time and effort with these? Would they be a good match with an Eico HF-81? :scratch2:

Hi Ed,

You are a very lucky guy to happen upon a pair of Lancer 99's. I started with just one, to see if all the hype about the LE14A was good skinny. It was, and now I have completed three projects with LE14A's, and have a pair of LE14H-3's on order.

The LE14A's can lead you down the wrong road if you are not careful. Or maybe it is the RIGHT road. Anyway, you might become enamored with them as I did.

Good luck, and be sure to include pix when you update them They are fabulous speakers, even though the standard box is a little on the small side for the LE14. And forget about the LE20 tweeter. There are lots of much better options.

 

[dc270]

I will be using the Eminence Alpha 6A's in that MTM arrangement for each cabinet. I calcualted the best volume to be pretty close to 3.5 cu ft for a 37 hz responce. The 6a's will be rear mounted to a front flared baffle that will angle off on each side of them at 45 degrees. I found the basic boxes and now will need to modify them.
I will keep us posted as it progresses...
I will be interested to know what Ed plans to do with his!

 

[gonzomeep]

Hi Ed,

I started with just one, to see if all the hype about the LE14A was good skinny. It was, and now I have completed three projects with LE14A's, and have a pair of LE14H-3's on order.

The LE14A's can lead you down the wrong road if you are not careful. Or maybe it is the RIGHT road. Anyway, you might become enamored with them as I did.

I kinda like 'em too. A's H's and H-1's Ferrite is probably the safest bet in the long run. I am waiting to read about your experience with the H-3's. Should be interesting Jack.

 

[kfa888]

Nice pix! :thmbsp:

 

[gonzomeep]

Nice pix! :thmbsp:

Danka kfa888. I got into a L220/222 kick a few years back. All of them were ground-up restoration/modifications. Triamped with L300 horns/drivers for mid's.

 

[Steve O]

I found a pair of JBL S99 Lancers today. The cabs are a bit beat up and one tweeter does not appear to be working. I suppose I'll clean them up and deoxit the watchamacallit knobs in the back tonight. Anything I should look for inside as far as the tweeter goes? And how does one remove this tweeter? Are these tweeters available? Should I invest the time and effort with these? Would they be a good match with an Eico HF-81? :scratch2:

Most everything that needs to be said about these speakers has been.... Regardless, my thoughts on the subject:

The tweeters in the pair I picked up at the flea mkt a couple of years ago weren't operational, thus the good price. The problem turned out to be the xover caps. I replaced them with Dayton metalized film equivalents (~8uF) and proper operation was restored. Switches were fine although DeOxit certainly won't hurt

As already noted, the stock foam surround on the LE14As is probably stiff and brittle. Bad sound! Many are proponents of a refoam job, no questions asked. I'm not, at least initially because there aren't any purpose made foam replacements for the inverted style LE14A out there at the moment. The non-inverted style generally available can be made to work but other minor (or less than minor depending on viewpoint) issues arise by its use. Therefore, I suggest the use of brake fluid to loosen up the surrounds so you can get an initial listen the the system with the LE14 operating close to design intent. It's low investment, low effort and low risk. Once you've experienced the sound of the 99s more-or-less as intended, you can make informed decisions as to where you go next WRT refoam, system changes, new boxes or auction (where I suspect most of these with marred boxes end up anyways because of value of the LE14 to DIYers).

FWIW, I find the sound of the 99 a bit strange for the reasons Zilch has already discussed (no extended high end and incompatible driver range matching). It doesn't help that the box is probably too small to take advantage of the LE14's potential either. But the sound is unique and easy to adjust to and the speakers are efficient and reasonably dynamic so you might like them stock, esp with a nice tube amp like the HF81.

Good luck. Any way you choose to go you can't lose.

 

[DaaDaa]

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[DaaDaa]

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[DaaDaa]

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[ernieS]

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical Sheet/S99 ATHENA ts.pdf

You have acquired a pair of one of the best and most versatile woofers available. If they have not already been refoamed, they will need that, as the original Lansaloy surrounds (ivory-colored) are likely hardened from age. You'll not get decent bass response from them until that is remedied. Use "Search" to find several discussions of S99 and LE14A refoam in this forum.

The mounting screws for the LE20-1 tweeter are behind the black foil covering the face, which may be carefully removed using a heat gun or hair dryer and a thin blade. Be careful not to crease the foil if you intend to reuse it. Neither new units nor factory replacement diaphragms are available for LE20-1. If one is actually bad and your intent is to restore, you'll have to replace it with a used one. They are quite common.

So much for restoration; on to upgrade:

LE20-1s hardly even qualify as tweeters by contemporary standards. They roll off significantly in the very high frequencies they might be assumed as purporting to reproduce:

If you want vintage sound with rolled-off highs, that's LE20(-1) in spades.

Can they be replaced with modern tweeters? Yes, probably, but modern tweeters which play competently down to S99's 2 kHz crossover frequency are rare. I believe I have further demonstrated in other threads here that, with respect to tweeters, in detail, "Plug 'n' Play" is somewhat of a mythical pursuit in vintage systems.

There's also another problem: S99 is one of several vintage JBL systems which earned for LE14A an undeserved reputation as haviing "muddy" midrange, and the reason is that it is misapplied in these systems. It's a large woofer with a heavily Aquaplas-damped cone for which 2 kHz is a lengthy stretch. LE14A is most suitably used up to 1 kHz, i.e., an octave lower. It can be pushed a bit above that, but not to 2 kHz.

So, what is the answer? You've got a system with a tweeter which plays neither high nor low enough mated to a woofer that doesn't play high enough to match it. Member Jackgiff made them into three-ways here:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119471

I have a more radical approach:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7671

As an extension of that concept, both Jackgiff and member Duffinator have completed projects incorporating LE14As and PT waveguides in other cabinets:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117212

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=136160

Member Mxlews is using LE14As as subs in Altec Madrid cabinets, though he has not yet shown us that project here.


Otherwise, restore them and enjoy what they are.... :thmbsp:

I disagree that the woofer can’t go high enough etc. I’ve been running some frequency tests. You can’t see any issues in the 2000 KHz range. They’re very flat. My restored pair are mind blowing.

 

[Dswankey]

@ernieS

The member you quoted and disagreed with posted that 16yr's ago on top of that he's been deceased for 13yr's

 

[malden]

I disagree that the woofer can’t go high enough etc. I’ve been running some frequency tests. You can’t see any issues in the 2000 KHz range. They’re very flat. My restored pair are mind blowing.

that's encouraging