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JICO N91E: SAS Worth the Extra Money?

SInvictus

SInvictus

New Member
I have a Shure M91ED on my Dual 522 and am looking to replace the stylus on the cartridge. After doing some research, the JICO N91E SAS seems like the best bet, but I see that they also manufacture a non-SAS N91E which is priced for significantly less.

Is the extra money for the SAS worth it? All of the reviews for both styli are glowing, without a single complaint. While I am not an audiophile by any means, I do listen to records every day and if there is a noticeable sound difference between the two, or if one will wear less on my records, I might wait until I can afford the SAS.

Thanks
 
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SInvictus said:
I have a Shure M91ED on my Dual 522 and am looking to replace the stylus on the cartridge. After doing some research, the JICO N91E SAS seems like the best bet, but I see that they also manufacture a non-SAS N91E which is priced for significantly less.

Is the extra money for the SAS worth it? All of the reviews for both styli are glowing, without a single complaint. While I am not an audiophile by any means, I do listen to records every day and if there is a noticeable sound difference between the two, or if one will wear less on my records, I might wait until I can afford the SAS.

Thanks
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The HE is a pretty good second best to the SAS. :music:
http://www.lptunes.com/Hyperelliptical-replacement-for-Shure-N-91ED-N91ED-p/shn091edlphl.htm
 
I have the Jico SAS on a Shure V15III, and the Jico Hyperelliptical on a Shure M91. I've run both on my AR XA with Magnepan Unitrac tonearm. The SASV15 does provide a small bit more detail, but the difference is certainly not dramatic. I realize I'm comparing two different carts, but that's what I've got to share!
 
I do not have the same cart but I have a Shure V15MR with a Jico (also, I have a low NOS stylus for that cart) and.. man its worth the mula. My wife will testify the Jico is in a league of it's own. Not knocking the Shure NOS is amazing as well but...well for those of you who know...
 
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skandl said:
I do not have the same cart but I have a Shure V15MR with a Jico (also, I have a low NOS stylus for that cart) and.. man its worth the mula. My wife will testify the Jico is in a league of it's own. Not knocking the Shure NOS is amazing as well but...well for those of you who know...
Click to expand...

I assume that you are referring to the Jico SAS, vs the Shure line contact/SAS that came with your V15MR? Have you compared it to the corresponding Jico hyperelliptical?
 
I don't understand the difference, if any, between the vivid line and hyper-elliptical. The one at turntableneedles.com is described as a hyper-elliptical, and it's the one I have on the M91 referenced in my first post. As I said, I was very favorably impressed with its performance vs the SAS...which is priced at 2x.
 
Decibel_116 said:
I have one of these on one of my M91EDs:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVG-PM3136D...784?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e95af8480

Pretty amazing for the price. This is an EVG-branded stylus manufactured by JICO. You could use one of these while saving up for the SAS. I use an SAS on a Shure V15 Type IV and I like it.
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I have this stylus. I also have the JICO SAS. I run both on a Marantz 6300 and can't tell that much difference. Perhaps it's my ears. Perhaps it's the table. Perhaps it's my speakers. Perhaps it's the hype. Whatever it is, IMHO, the JICO is not worth the significant increase in cost.
 
kcbluesman said:
I don't understand the difference, if any, between the vivid line and hyper-elliptical.
Click to expand...

Nobody knows what a ‘Vivid Line’ actually is, but it seems that it’s LP Gear’s name for their version of an extended line contact tip shape, sourced from a Japanese manufacturer.

Hyperelliptical (HE) was the name used by Shure for their extended line contact stylus, initially introduced with 1978’s V15 Type IV. It was part of a long list of other manufacturer-specific stylus shapes and names for styli with extended line contact shapes, which stemmed from the fact that JVC and Namiki had patented the first extended line contact tip, the Shibata. So other major cartridge manufacturers designed their own similar shapes to save paying expensive fees to use the Shibata (although some like Audio Technica did for a while). Aftermarket sellers have started using the hyperelliptical name recently, because Shure last marketed HE styli in the early-90’s. Whether they are true to the original Shure hyperelliptical stylus shape is probably another matter!

So there probably isn’t much difference between a Vivid Line and a hyperelliptical – both are line contacts sold by aftermarket manufacturers.
 
Bourbon said:
I have this stylus. I also have the JICO SAS. I run both on a Marantz 6300 and can't tell that much difference. Perhaps it's my ears. Perhaps it's the table. Perhaps it's my speakers. Perhaps it's the hype. Whatever it is, IMHO, the JICO is not worth the significant increase in cost.
Click to expand...

I have the EVG and the SAS for my V15-III. The SAS is clearly superior but the EVG punches way above its cost and has a place in the rotation.

Your problem with SAS may be the arm mass. The 6300 is a medium mass arm. Most Shures are high compliant and like lower mass arms.

Also, if you don't have VTA adjust you may not be able to optimize the rake angle for SAS.

Back to the OP, you may want to start with the EVG, upgrade to SAS later, and then use the EVG for lower condition records.
 
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My Traveler has a M91 Cartridge. I have both the SAS and the $13 EVG/Jico styli. Recently I used the EVG for a couple weeks and switched to the SAS, and in less than 10 seconds you know what you are paying for. Whichever you choose getting the VTA correct makes a BIG difference in the way they perform. On my table the cart sounds best with the arm parrallel to the record. YMMV
 
It has been my experience that the SAS stylus has greater resolution, but also has leaner mids/upper bass and possibly a slightly exaggerated top end vs. Shure's OEM styli. I've used SAS styli on the M91ED, V-15 III and V-15 IV, and the results were the same on all three. (The same applies to the JICO Shibata for the Stanton 681.)

I've concluded that I prefer the tonality and character of the $12 EVG styli for Shures, which is very similar to OEM. The slight difference in resolution is not a deal-breaker.
 
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In my opinion it comes down to listening style. A SAS is for sitting down and listening to music, where the music is the focal point. If you're just putting on records in the background the SAS is overkill. The Jico EVG's are very nice for the price. Is there a sound difference, yes, but you have to sit down to appreciate it.
 
Hyper elliptical & VividLine specifications

kcbluesman said:
I don't understand the difference, if any, between the vivid line and hyper-elliptical. The one at turntableneedles.com is described as a hyper-elliptical, and it's the one I have on the M91 referenced in my first post. As I said, I was very favorably impressed with its performance vs the SAS...which is priced at 2x.
Click to expand...

Shure HE-hyper elliptical is listed as 0.2 x 1.5 mils by Shure.
http://cdn.shure.com/uploaded_file/upload/28/us_pro_stylus_cross_reference.pdf

VividLine is listed as 0.2 x 2.9 (0.236 x 2.952) by LPgear/LPtune.
http://www.lptunes.com/LP-Gear-ATS-12VL-ATS12VL-stylus-p/lpgats12vl.htm

It would be interesting to read comparison of the two stylus. :scratch2:
 
i have run a sas on my m91e ( sadly broke it with only about 20 hrs on it ) and its good but i wasn't blown away by it, and at a 25% of the price you can run a shure n97xe that has the same 2x7 as the original i currently use a n97xe on my m91e and have done a,b comparisons with a oem hi track, and it sounds every bit as good as a original stylus. the m91's body is slimmer than the m97's but the stylus fits tight w no movement
 
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