Just how are they rating records these days?

[markpilk]

Maybe I'm just too picky, but I'm having a hard time understanding how so many people feel their used records deserve a NM to M when it sounds like beacon frying! I've just over the last 6 months pulled out the old Marantz and started rebuilding my vinyl colletion and have a hard time finding the kind of music I like, so I've turned to online purchases of used vinyl...with a hit or miss result.. Back in the 70's and 80's when I was purchasing vinyl a near mint or mint was questionable on new vinyl and I would lean more toward imports for better quality. I just made a purchase from a Discogs seller of a Pink Floyd (More) "$60.00" and Tull (Augualung) "$40.00". And was very disappointed. The seller told me he just looked at the vinyl and never listened....is that the way to rate vinyl? Anyway, he's giving me a refund, but at those prices, I truly expected the vinyl to be as advertised. I'm guessing as long as sellers refund, no big deal, but jeeze ..... Learn to rate your records. And he is not the only one I've had this happen. Just over the last 5 weeks, two sellers from Discogs and one from AK.

 

[ra7c7er]

I would venture to say 95% percent of sellers don't listen to anything before they grade their stuff.

 

[Condorsat]

Vinyl has always been a crap shoot. Okay when inventory was high and prices were low. Today ... not so much.

 

[dumptruck]

I think people need to be reasonable about non-pros grading their records, and visual grading is widely accepted, but NM is different because it means just as good as new from the store. If you're visually grading a record NM, you need to say so. I haven't been on the discogs discussion boards for a few years, but I'm pretty sure they still frown on careless NM/M grading in a BIG way. I don't think you should be afraid to be harsh about it, within reason (like a calm description of what happened with a neutral rating, in the case that a full refund is politely given). When people freak out because their "VG+" purchase turns out to be what they'd call "VG-", I say grow up, but NM means NM.

 

[markpilk]

I think people need to be reasonable about non-pros grading their records, and visual grading is widely accepted, but NM is different because it means just as good as new from the store. If you're visually grading a record NM, you need to say so. I haven't been on the discogs discussion boards for a few years, but I'm pretty sure they still frown on careless NM/M grading in a BIG way. I don't think you should be afraid to be harsh about it, within reason (like a calm description of what happened with a neutral rating, in the case that a full refund is politely given)./QUOTE]

Yes, I'm am planning to say something in the feedback. The guy is cool about the refund, so I'm not planning on slamming him, but I totally agree, NM or M should at least be listen too! I do have to take time to repackage and run to post office. I had over $500.00 in my cart from this one seller, but did just two records to test the waters. I'm totally cool with paying a higher price for quality, but this guy is way to high for what I just received.

 

[rdka]

Try and buy from original owner and not through dealers. If you can, it may save on the 8 people who have previously owned it. Let alone whatever tonearm/cartridge was used on it.

For those prices you paid on those albums, that's what you should have got.

Another thing I ask about, or look for, is the people using mobile fidelity inner sleeves. Or plastic outer sleeves even. Always consider the shape the cover is in---those old covers don't stay in mint shape if they've been abused or handled a ton. That does give you an indication or barometer of the vinyl. That indicates care for the product as opposed to folks who have used the vinyl as an ashtray.

A bad cover or mediocre one is almost exclusively a strong hint the vinyl is no good.

 

[131east23]

Discogs has never impressed me. I have found a few good sellers on Ebay that I trust. I read the feedback that has been left. I determine that they are basically only selling records and get the feeling these are guys from my generation and they "get" it. One of the sellers I buy from cleans every record with a RCM and does a few random needle drops but still he tells you that the grade is "visual" and needle drops are a confirmation of his feelings about the record. I also limit buying used vinyl that I personally can't inspect before purchase (including new, overpriced, crapshoot vinyl) so when I buy over the internet I am looking for first pressings, asking for dead wax info, and creating a dialogue with the seller before I buy the record. If they don't have a return policy that allows the return of anything for any reason I don't buy from them at all. And yes, seems most people can't grade a record and the plus and minus signs are way over used, especially the one that comes after NM(-).

 

[HypnoToad]

I have sold some vinyl lately and made my own rating system:

1. New / As New - Looks and sounds like it hasn't been played.

2. Excellent - Has very minor wear on the cover, vinyl is shiny and may have some surface noise between tracks but nothing during the content.

3. Good - Cover shows it's age and the vinyl may have some surface noise in the quieter passages.

4. Fair - Cover beat up and vinyl has distracting surface noise.

I can't stand this VG+, VG++, VG+++ etc, I would never pay high prices unless I can play it first, or I actually know the seller is honest. Even at the local record store I asked him to get me a particular album and it looked fine but to me wasn't anywhere near NM as he said it was.

 

[DougMac]

I occasionally by records from eBay, mostly 78's. Whenever transacting with a new dealer, I do like you did, I buy a trial run. I also try to buy play graded records.

I think grading is very subjective. I'm less interested in if the seller's ratings align with mine as I am with establishing the relationship between my grading and his. For instance, if they rate something NM and I regard it more VG+, I'll keep that in mind when bidding. I've been fortunate. Almost all the sellers I deal with grade conservatively; I've found I would grade out the records one grade higher than they do.

I mostly buy from thrifts and garage sales. There are very few albums I'd pay the kind of money you paid for those records. Was the Aqualung record a rare 1st pressing or special in another way? A quick check on eBay brought up scads of choices for much less. There was even a sealed copy for what you paid. As for the PF, the prices were all over the place. One sold for ~$15 in excellent condition from a seller who has 100% positive feedback. Maybe you should try other sources.

 

[Condorsat]

Yes, I'm am planning to say something in the feedback. The guy is cool about the refund, so I'm not planning on slamming him, but I totally agree, NM or M should at least be listen too! I do have to take time to repackage and run to post office. I had over $500.00 in my cart from this one seller, but did just two records to test the waters. I'm totally cool with paying a higher price for quality, but this guy is way to high for what I just received.

Somebody being cool about a refund is meaningless to me. Even a bad seller will give quick refunds because most folks won't take the time to go through the hassle of a return.

Once you lose your integrity, the rest is easy. J.R Ewing

When it comes to vinyl ratings ... it's all subjective IMHO. Online ... I have to buy several copies from a particular seller before I would even consider their opinion on a records condition to be accurate.

If in doubt about the condition of a record (online listing) ... ask the seller "If you hold the vinyl up under a bright light bulb ... what do you see" ... many times the magical NM rating will disappear or the seller will not respond (a non-answer is an answer).


My advice would be to find and deal with limited number of online sellers you trust. You will have to be patient and wait to acquire the specific albums you want.

My standard for online seller ... the vinyl has to 100% match the sellers visual description. Unless the seller lists the playback condition ... it's up to me to assume the risk. Otherwise ... only buy from sellers who play grade their records ... not many.

 

[Andyman]

I just made a purchase from a Discogs seller of a Pink Floyd (More) "$60.00" and Tull (Augualung) "$40.00".

At those prices, you should buy play graded vinyl. If I were paying over $20 for an LP, it would only be play graded. I've heard far too many mint looking classical LPs sound crackly, so I know that looks don't tell the whole story

The seller told me he just looked at the vinyl and never listened....is that the way to rate vinyl?

That's probably the way 98%+ of vinyl is sold, maybe more. Who's going to spend 40+ minutes listening to an LP they're selling for $10??

 

[SPEC2man]

What is truly disappointing to me is how much brand new vinyl isn't NM by definition - right out of the package. I have had several new LPs, including the 45 RPM release of Fleetwood Mac-Rumors that showed up and played with more than a few ticks and pops and it wasn't exactly flat. A couple of the now infamous Beatles re-issues had some issues as well. I was able to return the Beatles LPs but the Rumors LP will forever haunt me. It was a special 45 RPM release - weighed a ton, looked spectacular but sounded noisy. I got so much crap when I tried to return it that I just ate the $50. I found out from my local indy record store, their policy is to NOT take returns on opened product. They had helped my out a couple times because I spend a fair amount in there but I had to plead my case.

I have read a few posts here that lead me to believe that's pretty standard now days. So the definition of "Mint" and "Near Mint" is now reading more like "Likely Mint" or "Likely Near Mint". There aren't words to describe how disappointing this is to me, as I like to leave LP's sealed until I am ready to listen to them. My new procedure is to open them, clean them and spin them as soon as they come through the door, At least I have a chance to get a return.

 

[ekmanning5]

Grading vinyl is a very subjective exercise. At the very least you have two different opinions as to what the condition may be. If the buyer and seller were standing right next to each other there might be some hope for agreement. but of course that isn't possible. Add to that the decisions that have to be made; hairline scratches, scuffs, smudges...how much is too much. I try to grade down and if there has EVER been a beef as to condition I offer a total refund, including shipping. I don't understand how that can be considered meaningless. I've purchased records that have looked stunning, and have pops and clicks, yet to my eye there isn't a thing wrong with them. Andy is right, it IS difficult to play grade everything. So, I do my best, try to be honest, and communicate to resolve differences.

 

[Silverman]

Its yard sale days in my little town. My brother found a group of records and I had him buy one. He inspected it visually and said it looked good. Played it and could tell it was played on quality equipment, Sure it needed run thru the spin clean but no scratches or noise in the music. Went back and got 15 more. Now with a visual inspection I would rate them as near mint, Covers like new, no visual scratches. Do they need cleaned, yes they do. But I do not expect that everyone had RCMs in the old days. Very few actually so I expect to have to clean every record I buy.