Lately my system has been slightly underwhelming.

mackat

mackat

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It is:

Sony 2251 w/Black Widow w/Shure V15V MR
Marantz 2275
HD650's

Today, I tried my Fiio E9 for the first time in quite a while. It makes a slight, but noticeable, difference. What do you think would make the biggest difference?

Better headphone amp, e.g., Bottlehead Crack, Schiit Valhalla
Better phono stage, e.g., V-LPS, 640p, JD9

I have been told that emerging else should be just fine. Indeed, I greatly enjoy it. Just want some more detail and soundstage. Please don't say different headphones, these are the only perfect headphones for me. I have auditioned over 50+ pairs.

Thank you!


Ben aka MacKat
 
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Well, I don't use speakers all that often, so might it be better to get a stand alone phono stage and headphone amplifier?


Ben aka MacKat
 
Sure. I think I'd try to remove the Marantz from the system for a while. It might be the underwhelming component in your set up. I do not like the sound of my 2250B with my headphones at all.

It would be pretty cheap for you to just find a little NAD integrated amp or receiver. My little NAD C 740 receiver kicks ass as a headphone amplifier.
 
You might want to play with cartridge loading...

Is your cartridge a VxMR or VMR? - the VxMR has a depressed high end (Shure sold this as the "audiophile" sound profile) - where the VMR is neutral.

Either one of them will achieve the right "designed" sound if they are loaded right ... so checking the capacitance is critical....

However....
The observation has been made that the popularity of many MC cartridges is due to their artificially enhanced detail and soundstaging...
(http://www.regonaudio.com/Stanton881AudioTechnicaATML70.html)

They are popular with audiophiles rather than recording engineers....

So just a couple of thoughts:
1) The thing that MC's do to provide that effect is they have a gently rising top end, starting at around 10k, and rising to around +7db at 20k (some rise more - very few less) - this effect can also be duplicated with very light use of a treble knob or equaliser.

2) Soundstaging is a product of separation (in conjunction with phase...) - the Stanton/Pickering family are the champions of separation.... the good ones are out of production, but patience can pay off... the Stanton 881/Pickering XSV family are excellent...
The Audio Technica VM design is also somewhat different in approach to the Shure family - an AT150MLx (current prod) or a vintage AT155LC / AT20ss / ATML180 etc might be of interest.
(I like the Shures, I use a V15VMR, they are tonally very very good, but the above named cartridges and their peers are just as good albeit different - and that difference might be what you are looking for)

3) Something completely different - take a look at the Dynavector Karat series of cartridges.... due to their very very short cantilever (around 2mm) and the use of a solid ruby cantilever, they have an immediacy and dynamics that are quite unparalleled... detail, dynamics, these are its strengths..... separation is its weakness. What this one does well it does at worlds best levels.... (would require an MC phono stage or step up)

4) The Dynavector cartridge are mostly high compliance and may do well on the black widow... their high output model 20X2H might be worth a try. (it is a much more "normal" design than the Karat)

Finally the vintage Marantz receivers have a great rep as headphone amps... I would not necessarily be looking there!

Headphones like all speakers are one of the most coloured / distorting parts of the system - right alongside the cartridge... the mechanical transducer parts of the system are the ones that introduce the biggest compromises - each designer has his/her own compromises... so they all differ... If you are 100% happy with the speaker end, and the way it responds to other sources (FM, CD...) then the cartridge should be your main area of focus - and of course the way the cartridge interacts with the arm...

HTH

bye for now

David
 
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Ben: Just to throw in another possibility, when you write "lately", could this coincide with you having a bit of a cold? Just asking, 'cause I'm also using headphones most of the time - and in my experience sound quality can already really suffer quite a bit, when my nose is just slightly clogged... Another variable on my side would be tension in the neck and shoulder area, which also seems to make a difference in my hearing ability. Much faster to cure than a cold, though - as I usually only need to do a couple of stretching exercises in that case.

Just mentioning that, 'cause for my taste too many listeners rather consider their hearing as constant instead of realising that it's in fact pretty variable...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: Btw, is your Marantz still in "original" condition? Might be that it needs a bit of maintenance/refurbishing then...
 
Ben, you are going to have to graduate from '70s silver integrated sound sometime, it's basically just audio nostalgia IMO. If I thought and heard otherwise I'd still have my freebie SX-1980 which some consider the epitome of the type, it may be all that but that is not what I'm in this for, soundwise
Also, FWIW, I'm not a fan of the headphone experience in spite of being hearing impaired, too much like taking a gourmet meal thru a stomach tube as you miss so much of the live in-room experience.
Sorry to be so direct, I'm also Aspergers and the gatekeeper's taken the day off.
 
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Surely there must be a better way to drive the HD650 headphones than the Marantz or the Fiio. Maybe the ones proposed, maybe a Music Hall PH25.2.
 
You need a crappy system to listen to for a while to clear and reboot your brain. After a few days the old system will sound great again.

As an alternative, you might be ready to try something "tube."
 
Well, the Marantz will probably just feed its headphone jack by the power amp section via resistors - i.e. it'll have a rather high output impedance. Hence it sure would be a good idea to try the HD650 with a headphone amp with pretty low output impedance for a change. The HD650 isn't very hard to drive, so it wouldn't have to be a very juicy model... I'm a bit too far away, but maybe someone else closer to Ben could drop in for a visit and bring a decent headphone amp for comparison?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: I haven't got a HD650 in my collection (nor a HD580 or a HD600), so I'm not sure how sensitive the Sennheiser react to output impedance. In any case not all phones are alike in that regard. Out of my collection for example the Beyerdynamic DT531 doesn't seem to profit all that much from it (i.e., it sounds hardly worse on "old-fashioned" headphone outs), while the AKG K240S definitely seems to like low impedance outputs in oder to show its full potential...
 
Don't knock driving headphones from a standard poweramp...

You can do so with a simple circuit (Grado used to publish a diagram for that purpose) or you can pick up one of these:
http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/headphone_amps/product/headtap/

You take the output of your power amp, run it into this, and plug your headphones in - which is exactly what the old receivers and integrateds used to do.

I tried it with my Revox 3100 (OEM Beyer DT880), Sennheiser PCX450, and Koss Pro4X.... it was surprisingly good - and definitely showed up the character of each amp I tried - much more effectively than speakers do!

In my opinion, running the HP jack of the main amp is an advantage.... the downside is only that if you have the high sensitivity low impedance headphones (as required for use with ipods and such... and therefore now quite common) there is a noticeable increase in noise.

All my headphones are over 100ohm so it was not an issue....

I honestly don't think the electronics would be an issue. (hence my focus on the transducers at either end...)

bye for now

David
 
I'm laying the blame on the Marantz. There's nothing you can do to get that preamp section out of the works. The 2275 I had contained within it a nice veil over everything I added in front of and behind it.
 
Pio1980 said:
Ben, you are going to have to graduate from '70s silver integrated sound sometime, it's basically just audio nostalgia IMO. If I thought and heard otherwise I'd still have my freebie SX-1980 which some consider the epitome of the type, it may be all that but that is not what I'm in this for, soundwise
Also, FWIW, I'm not a fan of the headphone experience in spite of being hearing impaired, too much like taking a gourmet meal thru a stomach tube as you miss so much of the live in-room experience.
Sorry to be so direct, I'm also Aspergers and the gatekeeper's taken the day off.
Click to expand...

That's fine, I get like that frequently too. I just love headphones, can't really get into speakers much. Don't know why.


Ben aka MacKat
 
lini said:
Ben: Just to throw in another possibility, when you write "lately", could this coincide with you having a bit of a cold? Just asking, 'cause I'm also using headphones most of the time - and in my experience sound quality can already really suffer quite a bit, when my nose is just slightly clogged... Another variable on my side would be tension in the neck and shoulder area, which also seems to make a difference in my hearing ability. Much faster to cure than a cold, though - as I usually only need to do a couple of stretching exercises in that case.

Just mentioning that, 'cause for my taste too many listeners rather consider their hearing as constant instead of realising that it's in fact pretty variable...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: Btw, is your Marantz still in "original" condition? Might be that it needs a bit of maintenance/refurbishing then...
Click to expand...

No such luck. I had one for a day or two a few days ago, but it didn't affect my ears, only my throat. I am hearing the same, I can definitely tell, I'm just wanting to upgrade as usual, because I can never just get used to something and live with it :D


Ben aka MacKat
 
mackat said:
That's fine, I get like that frequently too. I just love headphones, can't really get into speakers much. Don't know why.


Ben aka MacKat
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Some folk can't 'do' speakers due to the listening environment and I get that, I've done both for critical listening and while 'phones are fine for that and casual auditioning as well, I find them absolutely frustratingly unsatisfying for musical enjoyment. You regardless need to lose the Marantz and go minimalist with a dedicated phono/headphone system to move on, it sounds like you are past ready for it.
 
Dadbar said:
You need a crappy system to listen to for a while to clear and reboot your brain. After a few days the old system will sound great again.

As an alternative, you might be ready to try something "tube."
Click to expand...

Should I take my AT-PL50 out of the garage? :nono:


Ben aka MacKat
 
JohnVF said:
I'm laying the blame on the Marantz. There's nothing you can do to get that preamp section out of the works. The 2275 I had contained within it a nice veil over everything I added in front of and behind it.[/ QUOTE]

Maybe I just like the double veil too much? The Sennheiser one and the Marantz one? I will try to futz around with it though, but how would the, let's say, V-LPS II and a Bottlehead Crack sound compared to these. It would take me awhile to find the money, though.


Ben aka MacKat
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