Leestereo's Restoration/Upgrade Of A Sansui AU-717

For the tone board, can I replace C21/22 and C45/46 (10uf/25V) with Nichicon KL 10uf 50V? I can't find the Bi-Polar people seem to be using. Can I also use these in the Phono board in C19/20 (10uf/16V) and C27-30 (10uf/25V)?...
Mouser still stocks Panasonic SU 10uF bipolar capacitors (5mm diameter) that can used for the tone board capacitors at C21/22 and C45/46: https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/Panasonic/ECE-A1VN100U?qs=rMMd5vBiahoHyS%2Bw5X0GAA==

Nichicon KL 10uF 50V are good replacements for the phono stage capacitors at C19/20; the capacitors at C27-C30 are removed and 4.7uF stacked film capacitors are installed at C35/36.
 
Hi,
I'm actually rebuilding a 717 (thanks to Leestereo for all useful infos he gave).
I replace all resistor with 1% and on the board F-2663 on the schematic R609 is 39k, I found a 68k in reality, is it "normal" or they put the wrong resistor?
 
Hi,
I'm actually rebuilding a 717 (thanks to Leestereo for all useful infos he gave).
I replace all resistor with 1% and on the board F-2663 on the schematic R609 is 39k, I found a 68k in reality, is it "normal" or they put the wrong resistor?
If it looks original stay with that value.

Things change during production which isn't always corrected in the existing paperwork.
 
Part 1: Regulated Power Supply & Protector Circuit Board (F-2663) - Cont'd

View attachment 3608605

The C601 capacitor filters the raw DC from the diode pair (D601, D602) in the protection circuit and was originally rated at 47µF/50V; the replacement was a 100µF/63V low ESR type. The C604 capacitor, which with R609 determines the turn-on delay of the protection relay, was orignally rated at 470µF/10V (listed as 330µF/10V in the schematic) and was replaced with a 470µF/25V low ESR type. The C605 capacitor which shunts the ZD602 zener, was originally 33µF/50V and was replaced with a 47µF/50V low ESR type. The capacitors C606 and C607, both rated at 4.7µF/50V, are part of the power/protection LED indicator circuit and were replaced with low ESR capacitors of the same rating. The bi-polar capacitors C29 and C30, rated 220µF/6.3V (listed as 100µF/6.3V in the schematic) are part of the abnormal output voltage sensing circuit, for the left and right channels, respectively. The capacitors were replaced with 220µF/25V bi-polar types. The capacitors C606 and C607, rated at 4.7µF/50V, are part of the power/protection LED indicator circuit and were replaced with low ESR capacitors of the same rating. The VD1212 dual diode (D604) was replaced with a pair of 1N4148 diodes in series. The protection relay (RL601) was replaced with an OMRON MY2-02-DC24 which is a "drop-in" replacement for the original Taiko RAB-K2.


Part 2: Tone Control Circuit Board (F-2720)

View attachment 3608607

View attachment 3608608

View attachment 3608609

Signal Path Capacitors:
With the tone controls "defeated", the signal first passes through the input high-pass filter capacitors (C05, C06) which were 0.33µF polyester film types; these were upgraded to 0.33µF Panasonic polypropylene film types. The stock capacitors in the low-pass filter (C07, C08) were ordinary ceramic capacitors at 22pF (listed as 10pF in the schematic); these were replaced with same value C0G capacitors. Similarly, C23 and C24 were ordinary ceramic capacitors at 22pF (listed as 10pF in the schematic) and these were also replaced with C0G cpacitors of the same value. The output high-pass filter consists of a pair of polarized 100µF/6.3V capacitors in series (forms a "bi-polar" capacitor) for each channel (C27/C29 and C28/C30). Each capacitor pair was replaced with a single 47µF/16V Nichicon ES bi-polar "audio grade" capacitor (jumpers were installed in the vacant capacitor positions). Also, the film by-pass capacitors for the output capacitors, C25 and C26 which were 0.47µF polyester film types, were upgraded to 0.47µF Panasonic polypropylene film types.

With the tone controls "on", the signal additionally passes through the high-pass filter capacitors (C21, C22). These capacitors were originally polarized types rated at 10µF/25V; the replacements were 10µF/35V Nichicon ES bi-polar "audio grade" capacitors. Similarly, the capacitors C45, C46 capacitors in the output high-pass filter of the tone control circuit were originally low-leakage polarized types rated at 10µF/25V; the replacements were 10µF/35V Nichicon ES bi-polar "audio grade" types.

With the subsonic filter engaged, the signal additionally passes through a pair of polarized 4.7µF/50V capacitors in series (forms a "bi-polar" capacitor) for each channel (C33/C35 and C34/C36). Each original capacitor pair was replaced with a single 2.2µF/50V stacked film capacitor. Also, the film by-pass capacitors for subsonic filter, C31 and C32, were removed.


Non-signal Path Capacitors and other Components
The local decoupling capacitors C39, C40, C41 and C42 were originally rated at 47µF/50V; the replacements were low ESR types rated at 220µF/50V. The VD1212 dual diodes (D01, D02) were each replaced with a pair of 1N4148 diodes in series. And the notorious failure-prone 82ohm fusitors (R37-R40) were replaced 82.5ohm/0.25W metal film resistors.

View attachment 3608610

The C601 capacitor filters the raw DC from the diode pair (D601, D602) in the protection circuit and was originally rated at 47µF/50V; the replacement was a 100µF/63V low ESR type. The C604 capacitor, which with R609 determines the turn-on delay of the protection relay, was originally rated at 470µF/10V (listed as 330µF/10V in the schematic) and was replaced with a 470µF/25V low ESR type. The C605 capacitor which shunts the ZD602 zener, was originally 33µF/50V and was replaced with a 47µF/50V low ESR type. The capacitors C606 and C607, both rated at 4.7µF/50V, are part of the power/protection LED indicator circuit and were replaced with low ESR capacitors of the same rating. The bi-polar capacitors C29 and C30, rated 220µF/6.3V (listed as 100µF/6.3V in the schematic) are part of the abnormal output voltage sensing circuit, for the left and right channels, respectively. The capacitors were replaced with 220µF/25V bi-polar types. The capacitors C606 and C607, rated at 4.7µF/50V, are part of the power/protection LED indicator circuit and were replaced with low ESR capacitors of the same rating. The VD1212 dual diode (D604) was replaced with a pair of 1N4148 diodes in series. The protection relay (RL601) was replaced with an OMRON MY2-02-DC24 which is a "drop-in" replacement for the original Taiko RAB-K2.


Part 2: Tone Control Circuit Board (F-2720)

View attachment 3608607

View attachment 3608608

View attachment 3608609

Signal Path Capacitors:
With the tone controls "defeated", the signal first passes through the input high-pass filter capacitors (C05, C06) which were 0.33µF polyester film types; these were upgraded to 0.33µF Panasonic polypropylene film types. The stock capacitors in the low-pass filter (C07, C08) were ordinary ceramic capacitors at 22pF (listed as 10pF in the schematic); these were replaced with same value C0G capacitors. Similarly, C23 and C24 were ordinary ceramic capacitors at 22pF (listed as 10pF in the schematic) and these were also replaced with C0G cpacitors of the same value. The output high-pass filter consists of a pair of polarized 100µF/6.3V capacitors in series (forms a "bi-polar" capacitor) for each channel (C27/C29 and C28/C30). Each capacitor pair was replaced with a single 47µF/16V Nichicon ES bi-polar "audio grade" capacitor (jumpers were installed in the vacant capacitor positions). Also, the film by-pass capacitors for the output capacitors, C25 and C26 which were 0.47µF polyester film types, were upgraded to 0.47µF Panasonic polypropylene film types.

With the tone controls "on", the signal additionally passes through the high-pass filter capacitors (C21, C22). These capacitors were originally polarized types rated at 10µF/25V; the replacements were 10µF/35V Nichicon ES bi-polar "audio grade" capacitors. Similarly, the capacitors C45, C46 capacitors in the output high-pass filter of the tone control circuit were originally low-leakage polarized types rated at 10µF/25V; the replacements were 10µF/35V Nichicon ES bi-polar "audio grade" types.

With the subsonic filter engaged, the signal additionally passes through a pair of polarized 4.7µF/50V capacitors in series (forms a "bi-polar" capacitor) for each channel (C33/C35 and C34/C36). Each original capacitor pair was replaced with a single 2.2µF/50V stacked film capacitor. Also, the film by-pass capacitors for subsonic filter, C31 and C32, were removed.


Non-signal Path Capacitors and other Components
The local decoupling capacitors C39, C40, C41 and C42 were originally rated at 47µF/50V; the replacements were low ESR types rated at 220µF/50V. The VD1212 dual diodes (D01, D02) were each replaced with a pair of 1N4148 diodes in series. And the notorious failure-prone 82ohm fusitors (R37-R40) were replaced 82.5ohm/0.25W metal film resistors.

View attachment 3608610

View attachment 3608611
Hi Leestereo, I would like to know and understand why do you slightly increase value for the fusistors replacement? 82 now 82,5
and 27 now 27,4?
 
Hi Leestereo, I would like to know and understand why do you slightly increase value for the fusistors replacement? 82 now 82,5
and 27 now 27,4?
The slightly different values between the stock 5% carbon film resistors and the replacement 1% metal film resistors are due to the different standard values for each type, i.e., E24 vs. E96, respectively.
 
The slightly different values between the stock 5% carbon film resistors and the replacement 1% metal film resistors are due to the different standard values for each type, i.e., E24 vs. E96, respectively.
Aaaaaah ok if I understand, you take 82,5 1% so you can select a strictly 82ohms from the batch?
 
My understanding is that the replacement resistors are well inside the spec' for the original resistors and are much better quality/stability. There is no 'selection' required, the difference in values is inconsequential, they are so much better than the originals in every way.
 
My understanding is that the replacement resistors are well inside the spec' for the original resistors and are much better quality/stability. There is no 'selection' required, the difference in values is inconsequential, they are so much better than the originals in every way.
Ok, so if i put a 82ohms or 82,5ohms 1% metal film resistors it doesn't really matter and do not impact the performance?
Sorry for this kind of questions, I'm novice and I like to understand what I do
 
Hi, I need some help of Sansui expert,
Yesterday I finished the complete restoration of AU 717, set up bias and DC offset (under 1mv on each channel) I was very happy, so I decide to plug in my dac and speakers, I play music it work but I ear a "ffffffff" noise and it increase when I crank up the volume.....
I unplugged speakers and dac and hook up multimeter on speaker terminal and when the volume pot is completely to the left everything is perfect but when i move it the DC offset fluctuate a lot to maximum -100mv to 100mv .
The volume pot is the only thing I didn't disassemble, I just unscrew it tu spray F5 in it.
Can volume pot issues cause this kind of disfonction?
Or is it something else?
 
Hello everyone,
I finally disassemble the volume pot, and it was pretty clean, but now it's done.
I check the transistors on board F2720, and they are all PNP (ksc992) except TR 09,10,11,12 (NPN ksc1845) .
So I re test the amplifier and it was the same, but I investigate and when I engage the subsonic filter (16hz) it was far better.
Maybe it can ad some clue on where is the problem
 
Part 1: Regulated Power Supply & Protector Circuit Board (F-2663) - Cont'd

View attachment 3608605

The C601 capacitor filters the raw DC from the diode pair (D601, D602) in the protection circuit and was originally rated at 47µF/50V; the replacement was a 100µF/63V low ESR type. The C604 capacitor, which with R609 determines the turn-on delay of the protection relay, was originally rated at 470µF/10V (listed as 330µF/10V in the schematic) and was replaced with a 470µF/25V low ESR type. The C605 capacitor which shunts the ZD602 zener, was originally 33µF/50V and was replaced with a 47µF/50V low ESR type. The capacitors C606 and C607, both rated at 4.7µF/50V, are part of the power/protection LED indicator circuit and were replaced with low ESR capacitors of the same rating. The bi-polar capacitors C29 and C30, rated 220µF/6.3V (listed as 100µF/6.3V in the schematic) are part of the abnormal output voltage sensing circuit, for the left and right channels, respectively. The capacitors were replaced with 220µF/25V bi-polar types. The capacitors C606 and C607, rated at 4.7µF/50V, are part of the power/protection LED indicator circuit and were replaced with low ESR capacitors of the same rating. The VD1212 dual diode (D604) was replaced with a pair of 1N4148 diodes in series. The protection relay (RL601) was replaced with an OMRON MY2-02-DC24 which is a "drop-in" replacement for the original Taiko RAB-K2.


Part 2: Tone Control Circuit Board (F-2720)

View attachment 3608607

View attachment 3608608

View attachment 3608609

Signal Path Capacitors:
With the tone controls "defeated", the signal first passes through the input high-pass filter capacitors (C05, C06) which were 0.33µF polyester film types; these were upgraded to 0.33µF Panasonic polypropylene film types. The stock capacitors in the low-pass filter (C07, C08) were ordinary ceramic capacitors at 22pF (listed as 10pF in the schematic); these were replaced with same value C0G capacitors. Similarly, C23 and C24 were ordinary ceramic capacitors at 22pF (listed as 10pF in the schematic) and these were also replaced with C0G cpacitors of the same value. The output high-pass filter consists of a pair of polarized 100µF/6.3V capacitors in series (forms a "bi-polar" capacitor) for each channel (C27/C29 and C28/C30). Each capacitor pair was replaced with a single 47µF/16V Nichicon ES bi-polar "audio grade" capacitor (jumpers were installed in the vacant capacitor positions). Also, the film by-pass capacitors for the output capacitors, C25 and C26 which were 0.47µF polyester film types, were upgraded to 0.47µF Panasonic polypropylene film types.

With the tone controls "on", the signal additionally passes through the high-pass filter capacitors (C21, C22). These capacitors were originally polarized types rated at 10µF/25V; the replacements were 10µF/35V Nichicon ES bi-polar "audio grade" capacitors. Similarly, the capacitors C45, C46 capacitors in the output high-pass filter of the tone control circuit were originally low-leakage polarized types rated at 10µF/25V; the replacements were 10µF/35V Nichicon ES bi-polar "audio grade" types.

With the subsonic filter engaged, the signal additionally passes through a pair of polarized 4.7µF/50V capacitors in series (forms a "bi-polar" capacitor) for each channel (C33/C35 and C34/C36). Each original capacitor pair was replaced with a single 2.2µF/50V stacked film capacitor. Also, the film by-pass capacitors for subsonic filter, C31 and C32, were removed.


Non-signal Path Capacitors and other Components
The local decoupling capacitors C39, C40, C41 and C42 were originally rated at 47µF/50V; the replacements were low ESR types rated at 220µF/50V. The VD1212 dual diodes (D01, D02) were each replaced with a pair of 1N4148 diodes in series. And the notorious failure-prone 82ohm fusitors (R37-R40) were replaced 82.5ohm/0.25W metal film resistors.

View attachment 3608610

View attachment 3608611
Hi Ben,
I have some issues on my tone control board, I'm not electronicien , I try to follow your post and some other to restore my 717,
I take the voltage on F-2720 board and the are not good, I need help to solve this problem
 

Attachments

  • 717 F-2720 2 - Copie.JPG
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Thanks Hyperion, I will check them!
They are brand new ksc992, but maybe they are defective, d2 is a pair of 1N4148, I will change it too
 
Check TR04, TR08 and D02. Check for shorted or open junctions and orientation.
If you don't find anything wrong with them, replace them anyway!
I checked TR04,08, D02 and TR03,07, D01 they are all good KSC992 ECB in right orientation, anyway i change D01 and D02 with new paire of 1N4148.
For the transistor i put the old one 2SA750 (TR07,08) and 2SA726(TR03,04).
Powered on the amplifier, everythings good and this time the DC offset doesn't move when i crank up the volume pot!!
I put on all the cover and try to play a song but this time no sound.......
mesure the voltage it's better but not enought apparently.... send a picture of mesurement

TR09,10,11,12 are KSC1845
TR01,02,05,06,13,14 are KSC992
Now TR03,04 are 2SA726
TR07,08 are 2SA750
 

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  • 717 Voltage paire 12.02.JPG
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  • 717 Voltage impaire 12.02.JPG
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