Legacy Focus speaker "journey"/fixing a ribbon tweeter

[StimpyWan]

Crap. I should have left it alone. I just felt I needed/wanted a more secure connection. I was worried it might vibrate during massive bass moments or something...meh, too late now.

If the ribbon is seeing bass movements, it won't be a ribbon for long...!

 

[Hawkeye83]

If the ribbon is seeing bass movements, it won't be a ribbon for long...!

I didn't know if it would be exposed to any bass waves or other vibrations within the cabinet.

Anyway, I found a hole in the ribbon, it's toast!

Moving on! Thanks for all input though.

I may look at the two other ribbons to see if I can see anything there.

The other one is probably also a lost cause...it's got visible burnt marks in the middle of the ribbon.

The final one looks okay, but doesn't ohm out.

Probably ordering yet another one, this time from Legacy directly.

Also some Foster ones...just in case...these speakers need to get to full strength, no matter the cost/effort. I've yet to hear them at full strength, so it's starting to get to me!

 

[goodolpg]

I didn't know if it would be exposed to any bass waves or other vibrations within the cabinet.

Anyway, I found a hole in the ribbon, it's toast!

Moving on! Thanks for all input though.

I may look at the two other ribbons to see if I can see anything there.

The other one is probably also a lost cause...it's got visible burnt marks in the middle of the ribbon.

The final one looks okay, but doesn't ohm out.

Probably ordering yet another one, this time from Legacy directly.

Also some Foster ones...just in case...these speakers need to get to full strength, no matter the cost/effort. I've yet to hear them at full strength, so it's starting to get to me!

I like that attitude.
Legacy products have seemed to have received great reviews through the years.
Any I've seen have also had beautiful cabinetry.
Good luck with your project.

 

[swechsler]

If the hole is only in the conductor, but the driver itself is still intact, you can possibly patch those holes with some automotive rear defroster conductive paint. You'll need a steady hand, and you have to mask around the conductor with tape.

 

[Dingman]

At least it doesn't look like mine - I don't know what happened here...

 

[Skip Shot]

That's definitely not a soldered connection... don't try to solder that.

Use a pressure contact for the lead then used metal-set, or some other adhesive to keep contact.
It's not a moving type contact that needs flexion.
It's a contact adhesion only...

 

[Hawkeye83]

Thanks for the input everyone!

So yesterday I was scraping some of the crud off the metal plate around the ribbon, and I found a hole in the ribbon driver itself. Funny thing is, I stuck the tiny lead wire into that hole, and it made good contact, and I got a good ohm reading again...LOL! But I'm giving up on these three bad ribbon drivers.

Two new Foster ribbons coming from US Audio Mart...and one more Panasonic coming from Legacy.

I'm going to provide a sneak peek to Phase 3...and say that my Legacy/Coda LA96 amplifier will be showing up today...
More info on Phase 3 after the speakers are repaired...

 

[StimpyWan]

So I had a decision to make on the ribbons...buy drop-in replacement Panasonic "LEAF" ribbons, or buy the newer Foster ones. The Foster ones would require faceplate modification...and are 8 ohm instead of the original 4 ohm. The Foster ones are repairable by Legacy though, the Panasonic are not.

So, if you end up using the Foster ribbons, will you tweak the crossover? If not, going from a 4 Ohm to an 8 Ohm load, will shift the treble balance. But, it will also shift the tweeter crossover points too. Hopefully, Bill at Legacy can provide some guidance.

 

[Hawkeye83]

So, if you end up using the Foster ribbons, will you tweak the crossover? If not, going from a 4 Ohm to an 8 Ohm load, will shift the treble balance. But, it will also shift the tweeter crossover points too. Hopefully, Bill at Legacy can provide some guidance.

Excellent question. I do not plan on it. I should ask more at Legacy, but essentially I have a buddy who has also been through this...almost the exact scenario, actually! Not quite...but close...

Anyway he bought some original Focus (hearing his lead me to buy mine, 10 years later)...he had bad Panasonic ribbons, Legacy told him to get some Fosters, that they are direct replacements. My buddy didn't make any adjustments...

Now, I had the same thought...replacing a 4 ohm driver with an 8 ohm driver...you're gonna hear a difference there right? Won't the 4 ohm driver play louder, drawing more power from the amp?

So yeah I'm curious too how much of a difference I'll hear. Luckily I hope to have a complete set of both Panasonic and Foster ribbons to "play with"...
I can definitely report any impressions back, although I admit to not having "golden ears."
It will probably be a week or two before I have the drivers.
I bought the Foster ones already...just yesterday...but have not yet heard back from the seller...who has a feedback of "1" on US Audio Mart (1 feedback left, 5 star)...so hopefully he's legit.
And I haven't heard back from Legacy in two days either. Will probably check back in with them tomorrow if I don't hear anything today.

 

[StimpyWan]

I don't know how Legacy uses the ribbon tweeter? I assume it's a super tweeter? So, small shifts from one tweeter brand to another might not cause any dramatic shifts in performance. That said, if you do hear a balance shift, do the speakers have L-Pads to adjust level? That might be enough to allow for their "direct replacement" status.

 

[Skip Shot]

You are correct Stimp, that's what they called their super-tweeter in the original Focus speaker.
Have no idea where their lead-in freq passes on from their dome.

I would stay with the originals from Legacy Audio if they can be had...

 

[Hawkeye83]

Well it's been awhile since I've updated this.

The Legacy amp showed up. Plugged it in...SPARKS! Turned it right back off. Turned it on again...SPARKS! Well it's on now...and it quit sparking...so I tried to play music through it. It sounded great for 3 hours, no problems!

Turned it on again later...SPARKS! Must be a loose connection somewhere? Anyway, I sent it back. Something must have come loose in shipping. I probably shouldn't have even turned it on again after those first sparks,but it made music and sounded great, despite the sparking on power-on.

I also got a Legacy NexStep preamp. Sounds good but I don't like the remote, so I'm going to try to sell it.

Using the Accuphase E-212 with the Focus speakers for now.

Also got the Legacy "Steradian" bass contour unit, which I'm running in the tape loop of the Accuphase. So far I don't notice a ton of difference...maybe a little...with it in the chain or not. I think it's main purpose is to help control/contour the bass, using an adjustable knob...but I notice way more difference in the highs...or maybe it's just a slight drop in volume (dB)...I can't tell for sure. I know when I put it in the chain, things seem a bit quieter and slightly "warmer"...my room is way too small for these speakers, so I still have the bass boom. I might need to try some bass traps, or just live with it for now (we'll be moving in a year or so anyway).

Anyway, back to the speakers - they are now working 100%! It took me 4 months or so from picking them up to getting them working. Could have done it quicker,but I had enough speakers to play with that it wasn't a big hurry.

Things I ended up needing to fix/do:
- repair loose wire in one midrange unit (Accuton)...re-soldered it
- replaced both Panasonic "LEAF" ribbon tweeters
- replaced both dome tweeters

Really it was a pretty easy fix but I had some issues with some of the drivers, as noted previously. Also one of my dome tweeters was buzzing...when I put the faceplace back on, it wasn't quite lined up right...fixed that.

So everything is sounding great now! But I do have some extra/different ribbon tweeters to try. They are supposedly "Foster" brand but I'm not sure. I know Legacy has used at least 2-3 different ribbon tweeters. I put an email out to Legacy to see what they say. If anyone can identify these ribbon tweeters, let me know. I've not been able to find anything online. They don't say "Foster" anywhere, only:

8 ohm
Japan
1294S
0139

None of this is pulling anything up on Google.

We'll see what Legacy says!
I may try them if they are genuine Legacy replacements. If they were never used in the Legacy speakers, I would still like to try to find a spec sheet on them...and maybe use them with my Lii Audio, if appropriate!

so if anyone has any information on these, please let me know!

 

[JoeESP9]

They look like another variation on the Heil "folded ribbon" type. IE: They are not true ribbons but Heil variants. The vertical pleats are the giveaway. Below is a diagram of a true ribbon speaker from Magnepan. Their higher end models use true ribbon drivers, not Heil variants.

 

[swechsler]

They look like another variation on the Heil "folded ribbon" type.

I think these are just planar tweeters a la Infinity's EMIT. I don't see any pleats in the pictures posted, just a printed voice coil (check reply #25 in this thread).

 

[JoeESP9]

The tweeters in post #32 are what I was referring to. They appear to have vertical pleats.

Even if they are actually planar they are still not ribbons.

 

[swechsler]

The tweeters in post #32 are what I was referring to. They appear to have vertical pleats.

I'm not seeing it. Pleats on AMTs are usually farther apart and more pronounced. Plus the multiple vertical holes are almost always indicative of a planar.

Even if they are actually planar they are still not ribbons.

You won't get any argument from me there.

 

[JoeESP9]

At least we agree that they're not ribbons.

 

[opnly bafld]

FWIW the 3 - 12" drivers are all active (no passive) and the x-o to the ribbon is at 12k.

 

[Skip Shot]

Happy to hear you got the Focus going.

The Steradian has a impact on the quality of bass. It's not really made to tame a room issue.
It's used to control the return movement on the bass drivers. It can add bass turned all the way up but I found that to be too boomy... kinda un-natural.
It (Steradian) helps tighten the bass without freq loss.

If your bass is still boomy with the Steradian then the next step is the room.
Bass traps will help.
If the room's too small... uh, you need a bigger house

How bout a pic of your setup...

 

[audiom3]

Hey guys. I signed up for this forum just to post in the thread. I also have the original Legacy Focus speakers with Technics EAS-10TH400A ribbon drivers. Mine were also blown and so I bought replacements from Legacy (they're actually who sold me the speakers to begin with). I haven't been happy with the Technics to say the least. They're too far back in the audio spectrum and when I took one out this morning, it only measured 5ohms. So that could explain why my Focus are a tad more laid-back sounding than I would like. Mine also came with the older Swan bass drivers and I ordered all new woofers and replaced those with Eminence W1238Rs. Much better drivers than the Swans. I sourced 7" drivers for when mine either go out or need rebuilding. They drop right in (I installed 2 in my Legacy Silverscreen center channel) and sound as good or better than the old yellow Kevlar drivers. These are made by CSS and are the LDW7 mid woofers. They're certainly an option if you ever need the 7" drivers. Holes line up perfectly too. So no cabinet mobs of any kind are necessary. Specs were nearly identical as well (sensitivity and impedence). Now the fun part. I have on order, a custom pair of RAAL 70-10 ribbons. Again, the specs are very similar (with some very minor production tweaks) to the Technics Leaf tweeters. RAAL is custom forming the baskets/template so that they will slide right into place and line up with existing screw holes. I can't WAIT to hear what those babies are going to do for my highs. Next tweak will be upgrading the 1.25" midrange drivers to Scanspeak if I feel the speakers still need anything. I am having fun tweaking these speakers. I don't care about resale value as I'll either keep them forever or give them to someone in the family when/if I find a better speaker.

Anyway, please let us know how your speakers are doing!

PS - sorry it's a rushed post, I am at work.