...like I need a hole in the head. Epicure M-150

[kfa888]

That gorilla glue is amazing stuff but you need to learn to use about 1/4 of what you thing as it is like real slow expanding foam and then locks down tight. I had some 150's I recently sold but still have EPI 202's with woofers and tweets on 2 sides.

 

[ehoove]

One thing about Rick, he will dive right in with outstanding attention to detail. Looking good my friend.:thmbsp:
Regards,
Jim

 

[Ohighway]

That gorilla glue is amazing stuff but you need to learn to use about 1/4 of what you thing as it is like real slow expanding foam and then locks down tight. I had some 150's I recently sold but still have EPI 202's with woofers and tweets on 2 sides.

I sorta' have a love/hate relationship with Gorilla Glue. But you are 100% correct, a little goes a long way and keeping expansion in mind is a definite must.

One thing about Rick, he will dive right in with outstanding attention to detail. Looking good my friend.:thmbsp:
Regards,
Jim

Thanks for the compliment, though perhaps you're being a bit generous with that one....

 

[Ohighway]

And the plot thickens. The stuff that draws out otherwise simple projects.

As of yesterday I knew I had a VC misalignment in one of the woofers. I checked the other today and it was fine, save for some hard glue that was mysteriously stuck to the surround. In any event I decided I'd just refoam both woofers.

I got the x-acto knife out and started cutting the surround off the 'rubbing' woofer. As I'm cutting I'm noticing the cone trying to rotate...... WTF? I finish cutting the surround and find (within the limits of the tinsel leads) that I can spin the cone around! Very strange. I look underneath and it appears that either the center of the spider is not bonded to the VC, or that the bonding has failed. At that point I just clip the leads and pull out the cone/VC completely. It's then I notice the second strange thing. Holding the outer portion of the cone flat, I see the VC assy is canted off at an angle. Worse is that I can move it to the opposite side. More bonding issues. Finally I begin to cut back some of the excess glue from where the dust cap was bonded and..... it just starts lifting off the cone in places like it was never really bonded on there to begin with! I think I can salvage things by judiciously aligning and bonding. But wow..... what a weird problem.

 

[aidynphoenix]

:scratch2: sombody play them HARD?

 

[SimplySound]

:scratch2: sombody play them HARD?

Wow Rick... you are digging in deep there... cool to follow along!

And yeah, I'd say they were "over extended"!

Then again, they may be a quality defect issue.

 

[Ohighway]

:scratch2: sombody play them HARD?

Beats me as I don't know their history. My thinking is that there were issues with the adhesives used on these. For example, where those dust caps were bonded.... no amount of playing them hard ( or lack thereof) would have caused that glue to just not be bonded to the cone. I'm thinking bad adhesive or incorrect application of it or ???

There are no outward signs of abuse on these things.

 

[aidynphoenix]

how does one go about making sure the VC is perfectly level with the cone? do you balance a surface such as a table. face the cone downward on the table, try and position the VC on the cone while making sure that it is also level?

 

[Ohighway]

how does one go about making sure the VC is perfectly level with the cone? do you balance a surface such as a table. face the cone downward on the table, try and position the VC on the cone while making sure that it is also level?

Not exactly sure but it shouldn't be too tough. I'll figure something out.

 

[Boto]

Perhaps you should give Human Speakers a call. They are probably out of warranty (especially now since they are apart). Huw may have some insight on what may have happened to this woofer.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Nice speakers... Those will make a great bookshelf system once everything's up to snuff (whatever that means). Several Epi models are on my speaker bucket-list.

I tend to agree with everybody about the insulation. The speakers were designed with that type of insulation in mind, and it can affect the performance of the woofer. My Wharfedales have rockwool inside the cabs, and I know it works well for that, but no idea how it would work in the Epis.

 

[Ohighway]

Perhaps you should give Human Speakers a call. They are probably out of warranty (especially now since they are apart). Huw may have some insight on what may have happened to this woofer.

I'll probably contact HUW to show him the pix along with the tag on the back indicating part# and date. I didn't buy the drivers new from him so expect nothing from him. However he might verify that he did/didn't have a problem around that period of time. At a minimum I think he should be informed so as to see what happened.

 

[Galaxie65]

In my limited experience oil caps sound better in just about everything.

Say, your 1000s are the old style cabinets aren't they??

Yeah, the 1000's are the old style which makes them about 180lbs + each and has nice brass inlay. I really love them, the 150's are acting as the rear's when I'm testing different music and patterns. The 150's actually give a low response and act like semi suto subs, which was surprising as I never thought they would.

 

[ehoove]

I'll probably contact HUW to show him the pix along with the tag on the back indicating part# and date. I didn't buy the drivers new from him so expect nothing from him. However he might verify that he did/didn't have a problem around that period of time. At a minimum I think he should be informed so as to see what happened.

Good thinking, it should be interesting feedback if nothing else.
Regards,
Jim

 

[Andyman]

Say, did you ever sell that unique looking 'corner' pair you had ?

-----

Not yet. I've got them up on Craigslist. I probably will wind up selling both pairs my 500s as the ADS L810s seem to rule the roost out in the garage lately.

Just too many darn nice spikkers to keep around here....:yes:

 

[jsixis]

Hmm. I think the one woofer I measured was 3.9 ohms DCR. I'll double check.

thanks, that is quite a job you got yourself into. I have a friend who uses those speakers in his studio, got to give them a good listen and I liked what I heard.

 

[Ohighway]

thanks, that is quite a job you got yourself into. I have a friend who uses those speakers in his studio, got to give them a good listen and I liked what I heard.

I checked and yes, 3.9 ohms on the woofer. Keep in mind these were replacements so I'm not sure if that's what was in there to start with.

As far as "quite a job I got myself into". Methinks it's the nature of the beast. (vintage audio). It's all good. One more learning experience to add to the pile.

 

[Ohighway]

Working on the second cabinet removing the crossover. Whew. Screwed and glued... EIGHT screws and gorilla glue.

Unfortunately to get the glue and masonite remnants out I have to resort to working with a wood chisel. PIA but it gets the job done.

I may have to re-think the plan of using the tweeters rebuilt by Human Speakers. The masonite tweeters on these are mounted on the face of the soundboard, not recessed into the surface. The face of them is very close to the grill cloth. The Human Speaker replacements have a outwardly dimpled protective grill, which I think will impact the grill cloth. Wonder if there's a quick and easy way to cut a recess for the tweeter??

 

[Ohighway]

Just a quick update on these. They got put aside for a couple weeks while I was catching up on vehicle maintenance and other 'outdoor' stuff.

Anyway, after scratching my head trying to figure out what kind of fixture I'd use to align the loose voice coil with the cone on that bad woofer..... well.... I finally got tired of thinking about it and decided to wing it. I used some quick set epoxy and just decided to align it by eye. (Working as a machinist for many many years, that's not as bad as it sounds, I've got a pretty good eye.) I applied the epoxy and straightened it until it looked good to me. I did a quick check by placing the cone down on a flat surface and rotating it around to see if it appeared to 'wobble'. I saw none so I placed a lightweight ruler across the VC and measured from the ruler to the flat surface at the extremities. Again rotated it and checked it several times and all was good. Set it aside and let it cure completely.

Yesterday I glued the new surround to the cone. Today, popped the entire cone/VC assembly in though the spider and shimmed the VC. I then glued the surround to the woofer frame, and then the VC to the inner portion of the spider. I still need to re-solder the tinsel leads to the lugs on the side of the woofer frame.

There was nothing wrong with the other woofer, but in the interest of having matching surrounds I installed a new foam surround on that one too.

Headed outside while the speakers were drying and started and moved 'old blue' for the first time in..... well.... a long time.

 

[4seatPilot]

Nice work fixing this amazing kwality work them. I have a set I snagged from Steve *4seatpilot*. He re-worked them and they are AMAZING, especially when everything is updated and done so correctly. I can't remember what caps he used but I've heard many say the oil filled caps sound better.

Dayton Polys I think... I probably have a picture somewhere...

If I did them again I'd probably make the x-over panel a little beefier - but it was tricky because it still has to be thin enough for the binding posts...
(did I ever do a restore thread for them? I have a G+ album full of pictures...)

Here's the x-over

They really are nice looking. Cabinet quality (notice... with a Q this time) is phenominal. The cabinets are 3/4" thick everywhere. The upper and lower pieces appear to be solid walnut! Finish is superb and these have survived the years very well. Grill cloth is in great shape and badges are present and accounted for.

I can say from my experience with Galaxie's pair... the top and bottom are not solid unfortunately - but the insides of the panels are veneered - which is still a little OTT. Very nice speakers.

I have my own pair of 201s to re-do now myself. Very similar to the 20s that burmashave just sold, but taller side panels and different grills. They'll get their own thread one of these days...