Local record store not being awesome.

Kodaline

Kodaline

Super Member
There's a local record store down in the hood of my city. I go there when I'm down that way. Pretty good selection, lots of vinyl. If I were to guess, there's probably ten thousand records in there. I really want to support them fully.

They've got the discount bins, then the ones they've said they've cleaned, then the popular rock section, then the best of the best, then the new. Problem is, I buy, I look at the vinyl, it looks good, and I'm paying at least EX price if not NM-, and then I get burned because there's bad hiss or something in the vinyl.

I don't want to be that guy who takes stuff back, because I want to support these guys, but they either need to not charge so much, or actually listen to the record to make sure it's worth the price. I get that they can't do that with so much product. I think I'll ask them about it next time, and be like, what do you think the price on this record here implies? Does this price mean 'near mint'? Can I bring it back if it's not?

I mean, maybe they don't think their prices mean NM- even when they're that high per market value. I'm getting better records off my ebay purchases, I got 5 or so Judas Priest albums for cheaper than that store and are damn near perfect.

So...if it's an album I don't have, and I can live with it ('live with it' means quiet enough you can't hear any noise while the songs are playing), I keep it and am reasonably happy. This latest one, a Cosmo's Factory LP has this pervasive hiss that you can hear over the songs, and Creedence is LOUD. I'm going to write it off since this is only the second one I find unacceptable (beyond live with it) from them, but I'm going to need to figure out how to protect against bad purchases while not pissing these folks off and supporting them.
 
Register to hide this ad
Kodaline said:
There's a local record store down in the hood of my city. I go there when I'm down that way. Pretty good selection, lots of vinyl. If I were to guess, there's probably ten thousand records in there. I really want to support them fully.

They've got the discount bins, then the ones they've said they've cleaned, then the popular rock section, then the best of the best, then the new. Problem is, I buy, I look at the vinyl, it looks good, and I'm paying at least EX price if not NM-, and then I get burned because there's bad hiss or something in the vinyl.

I don't want to be that guy who takes stuff back, because I want to support these guys, but they either need to not charge so much, or actually listen to the record to make sure it's worth the price. I get that they can't do that with so much product. I think I'll ask them about it next time, and be like, what do you think the price on this record here implies? Does this price mean 'near mint'? Can I bring it back if it's not?

I mean, maybe they don't think their prices mean NM- even when they're that high per market value. I'm getting better records off my ebay purchases, I got 5 or so Judas Priest albums for cheaper than that store and are damn near perfect.

So...if it's an album I don't have, and I can live with it ('live with it' means quiet enough you can't hear any noise while the songs are playing), I keep it and am reasonably happy. This latest one, a Cosmo's Factory LP has this pervasive hiss that you can hear over the songs, and Creedence is LOUD. I'm going to write it off since this is only the second one I find unacceptable (beyond live with it) from them, but I'm going to need to figure out how to protect against bad purchases while not pissing these folks off and supporting them.
Click to expand...

be that guy, take it back.

we have a similar shop in the area, it’s they are usually great with there LPs but the cassettes have been hit or miss. I’ve taken a few back, especially if I’m paying full price.
 
Kodaline said:
There's a local record store down in the hood of my city. I go there when I'm down that way. Pretty good selection, lots of vinyl. If I were to guess, there's probably ten thousand records in there. I really want to support them fully.

They've got the discount bins, then the ones they've said they've cleaned, then the popular rock section, then the best of the best, then the new. Problem is, I buy, I look at the vinyl, it looks good, and I'm paying at least EX price if not NM-, and then I get burned because there's bad hiss or something in the vinyl.

I don't want to be that guy who takes stuff back, because I want to support these guys, but they either need to not charge so much, or actually listen to the record to make sure it's worth the price. I get that they can't do that with so much product. I think I'll ask them about it next time, and be like, what do you think the price on this record here implies? Does this price mean 'near mint'? Can I bring it back if it's not?

I mean, maybe they don't think their prices mean NM- even when they're that high per market value. I'm getting better records off my ebay purchases, I got 5 or so Judas Priest albums for cheaper than that store and are damn near perfect.

So...if it's an album I don't have, and I can live with it ('live with it' means quiet enough you can't hear any noise while the songs are playing), I keep it and am reasonably happy. This latest one, a Cosmo's Factory LP has this pervasive hiss that you can hear over the songs, and Creedence is LOUD. I'm going to write it off since this is only the second one I find unacceptable (beyond live with it) from them, but I'm going to need to figure out how to protect against bad purchases while not pissing these folks off and supporting them.
Click to expand...

I think it's fair for you to return it with your receipt.
Explain why and would think they would offer a exchange for different record or a refund.

Mistakes happen easily. And it's not easy to grade every record accurately.

I do this this with my local. No problems at all.
 
Record shops should listen to records? That’s ridiculous and impossible for a record store that has good turnover. There’s zero chance I’d take a used record back because of a noise. New records are different but used all bets are off. Expecting a store owner to know how every record in his shop sounds is unrealistic. Y’all act like there should be zero risk when buying records, also unrealistic IMHO.
 
I think I'll ask them about it next time, and be like, what do you think the price on this record here implies?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but that would make you a really obnoxious customer.

No record store can reasonably be expected to listen to the records they take in. Most stores buy large bundles of stock, sometimes entire collections, and it would be ludicrous to expect them to play-test everything.

Old records are going to have surface noise and other analog anomalies. If you want perfect, buy a new copy, not a decades-old record with unknown provenance.

Look, these are used items, and they're not going to be perfect. UNLESS the store is specifically grading them (which I've never encountered) and stating the grade on the cover next to the price, you should NOT expect you are buying NM copies. You want a graded copy? Buy a graded copy online, then you get to complain if it doesn't match the grading.

Inspecting them visually, and perhaps asking if you can give it a listen in the store is the best you can do. After that, it's as-is, my friend.

Noise? Pfft. That's the risk you take buying old, used records. Get an ultrasonic cleaner if it's that much of an issue to you.
 
Last edited:
I can see play grading a rare and expensive record but otherwise it’s just not going to happen.
If they were to play grade each album, a store with decent turnover would have to employ a full time staff to sit around and critically listen to records all day long. No way that would work.

I’d return the records you’re not happy with. I doubt you’ll be seen as a bad customer.
 
benricci said:
I'm sorry, but that would make you a really obnoxious customer.

No record store can reasonably be expected to listen to the records they take in. Most stores buy large bundles of stock, sometimes entire collections, and it would be ludicrous to expect them to play-test everything.

Old records are going to have surface noise and other analog anomalies. If you want perfect, buy a new copy, not a decades-old record with unknown provenance.

Look, these are used items, and they're not going to be perfect. UNLESS the store is specifically grading them (which I've never encountered) and stating the grade on the cover next to the price, you should NOT expect you are buying NM copies. You want a graded copy? Buy a graded copy online, then you get to complain if it doesn't match the grading.

Inspecting them visually, and perhaps asking if you can give it a listen in the store is the best you can do. After that, it's as-is, my friend.

Noise? Pfft. That's the risk you take buying old, used records. Get an ultrasonic cleaner if it's that much of an issue to you.
Click to expand...

As I said in the OP, the issue is not that the record is not NM-, but that the prices are high enough one should expect that condition. As I also said in the OP, I'm content with non-perfect vinyl, I believe I have a perfectly reasonable expectation of noise not intruding on the song. I don't expect perfection; I expect the quality of the record to match the pricepoint.

The following is a one-off noise scale, so it may need some revision, but it will serve the point.

10: Dead silent, new vinyl
9. Can hear lathe rumble, quiet hiss in between songs.
8. Some noise in between songs, not audible in music
7. Rare, quiet, sonic event in the music.
6. Occasional sonic event in the music.
5. Frequent Assorted pops and crackles, audilble in the music.
4. Consistent background hiss and noise.
3. Repetitive scratch causing a large event each rotation.
2. Skips to make the needle loop
1. Skips bad enough to throw the needle.

I consider NM to be 9, but it is usually 8-7. I will tolerate what I consider to be VG, which would be a 6 on this scale, even when paying NM prices. I will not tolerate a 4 when being charged NM prices. I think a record store can reasonably be expected to grade a record if they want to charge graded prices. Otherwise, they're ripping folks off. The issue here is either that they are overcharging for records, or overrating records. I think they're overcharging.

I do buy online, and I do own an ultrasonic cleaner and a brush/vacuum cleaning machine. Watch your assumptions, my friend. :D


Replies to others,

I don't believe I implied there should be zero risk involved. The issue is that I am trying to support this guy's shop, but the business practices are such that I can get better results for the same money off ebay and discogs and here, so it's not worth going to his shop, unless I am down in that part of town and want the experience.
 
Kodaline said:
I think they're overcharging. The issue is that I am trying to support this guy's shop, but the business practices are such that I can get better results for the same money off ebay and discogs and here, so it's not worth going to his shop, unless I am down in that part of town and want the experience.
Click to expand...
Then shop somewhere else and move on with your life. There's no reason to continue patronizing a store that you think is overpricing its merchandise.

Just because a local business exists, doesn't entitle it to anyone's patronage. They have to earn it. If they haven't earned your business, there's no obligation to support them. End of story.
 
Mint (M) – Absolutely perfect in every way. Never been played and usually sealed.

Near Mint (NM) – The record has been on a shelf between other records. The vinyl looks glossy and clearly has only been played a few times. There are no marks on the vinyl and the whole package is complete.

Excellent (E) – Same but I’d tolerate very light marks where the vinyl has been in and out of the inner sleeve a few times, or tiny signs of use generally.

Very Good Plus (VG+) – A few further faults are acceptable, but nothing that really compromises the record visually or audibly. A little rub, light inaudible marks, a little background crackle.

Very Good (VG) – It’s seen a bit of life, but is still usable. Light pops and clicks, an edge split, light visible scratches. You can still listen to it and enjoy looking at it, but it is visually and audibly USED.

Good (G) – To be honest you’re making trouble for yourself here, as Good means Bad. I’d only be selling something really desirable in this condition, with a bargain price and a full, no holds barred description to match.

Poor (P), Fair (F) Attempting to listen will be a disturbing experience. Expect major noise issues, skipping or repeating. The record itself is cracked, badly warped and has deep scratches. The cover is also approaching

If it doesn’t preform like it’s supposed to at the advertised grade, take it back. It is nice to support local businesses, in return you should get professional, quality, honest service in return.
 
Last edited:
Justgotohm said:
If it doesn’t preform like it’s supposed to at the advertised grade, take it back. It is nice to support local businesses, in return you should get professional, quality, honest, service in return.
Click to expand...

I think the issue here is that the store, like 99% of record stores in the world, isn't grading the records in their bins. The OP is expecting them to align to a certain grade in his head based upon what the store has priced them at, which I don't agree with. That's not the store's fault, or anything to do with their professionalism or "honesty."

If it's not a graded record, you shouldn't treat it like it is, or assume anything about its condition other than what you can see or play-test in the store.

If it's really, truly terrible, like unplayable, when you get it home, then you should use the store's return policy. Otherwise, assume old used records are as-is.

There are certain record stores in my state that I don't shop at because I think they're overpriced. That's life.
 
My LRS is caveat emptor. Use your own judgement is Ray's rule, though since he trusts my ear and judgement, Ray will take a return if you explain to him it sounds like crap.
 
EastPoint said:
Many record shops have one or more listening stations. Sounds like they should set one up.
Click to expand...
Every record store I've ever been in has a listening station setup. I have no problem being that guy. Take the offending record back and have them up it up at the store and play the offending tracks. There is a store about 40 minutes from me and the owner is very good at grading used records. I have yet to buy a noisy record from him. The store about 5 minutes away isn't the same and I have bought a few from them and taken them back.
 
bought an old judas priest album last week (used, no grade, $20), along with 9 others. the 3 hits on the album were skipfests, totally unplayable. didn't look awry physically, until you laid the disc flat and could park a matchbox car under one of the 'waves'.

got with the owner, worked out an exchange for a different album, then went and bought 5 more and posted about the good business dealings on their FB page.
ask them to make it right and test their business-savvy
 
My favorite store does not have a listening station, but they will gladly play a record if somebody asks them to. I never do. I trust them, and usually can tell how a record is going to sound just by looking at it. I'm also not terribly picky about used records and expect some noise, etc. Grading is something that is secondary to me because it's subjective at best. What I do know is that I frequent this store because I know the folks who own it, and who work in it. If there is some real issue with the record(or it turns out I already have the record, which happens more then it should) I can easily bring it back and they'll give me full credit. No problem, no questions asked. Of course I've been buying a lot of stuff from there for years(as well as bringing in and trading a lot of good stuff) so they know I'm not just trying to play games with them.

Bottom line for the OP if the store is not providing you with an experience that perhaps doesn't align with the way that they prefer to operate their business, then just move on and stick to sellers who do provide you what you're looking for.
 
I agree with most of the posters here on that it is the bottom line to not shop there if they don't give good business to move on, and I shall. They haven't been there long and I don't think they will be, and I think that's unfortunate.

I will inquire on returns.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom