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Look what followed me home, Hon!

Congratulations on getting some nice gear, and fixing it up beautifully. Good (Karma) story there, and the gear looks great! :thmbsp:

The Zero 100 gets a lot of bad-mouthing around here, probably as much in reaction to the over-hype that accompanied its release, as for actual demerits. Also, a lot of the ones you find have abused arms with bearings much looser than they originally were,which doesn't help its image. It was a very innovative TT (for its day), and as you're discovering, with a little work it's actually not a bad TT, even if not the "holy grail" it was originally touted to be. It's sure a cool vintage looker, at least, with a unique place in TT history. I have better, but am still keeping my Zero 100!

The Fisher? No need to comment; that's a GREAT piece to have. Congratulations!

Glad you've found a set-up that works so well; enjoy it! :music: :thmbsp:
 
Well, it's been nearly a week now.

The 800C is working well on a quad of mixed brand (3 Westinghouse 7591's and 1 Sylvania 7591 coinbase) that are pulling between 28ma and 31ma. Out of 10 these 4 are the closest I cold put together with the BIAS supply Stock. Sound is good. Pushing a pair of KLH 20's (4oHm). Kind of lacking in the Mids but I think that's the speaker. I like them a little brighter (3ways). this is with all controls centered and loudness off. Bass shy, but it's the speaker placement (1 foot from wall, 18" off floor, center of the walls, across the room from each other the only placeI have for speakers). If I putthem on the floor on tennis balls, the bass goes up but i lose what mids I have. Tone controls can adjust for this but I don't really want to do this. I may go with an equalizer eventually. I tried Scott S-10, S-15, PIONEER CS-66e's, and Sansui SP-200's. the 200's are ungodly efficient! Where everything else is set to 10:00 on volume I get the same @ 08:00 on the sui's. I may just go with them after recapping them. And raise them off the floor some. They have the mids' covered more than the S-15's. But for close up the S-15's are somewhat better than the KLH's. More Mid, but the high's aren't as bright, like they have some kind of veil on them. Maybe speaker construction.
Getting Back to the 800 operation

FM selectivity and sensitivity is OUTSTANDING! As good as or better than my sx-790/SX-1010 PIONEERS. It pulls DC Stations in with a 3-4 on a 12" piece of wire, (40 miles away.) Stations I have problems with interstation interference on other receivers is just not there on the 800C. I expected problems with it, seeing as there is a mishmash of RF tubes, but it seems to be locked on. So I'm gonna leave the tuner alone.

AM Reception is Outstanding as well. Sharp/Broad selectivity is very good. Not too many 40+ year old receivers can say that. Sound quality in AM is very good.

Phono is good to very good depending on what is connected. I originally had a DUAL 1009 with a Stanton 400V.3 and a D71EE connected. Sounded Ok, with some very slight background hum hich I couldn't get out. I then hooked up the ZERO 100, with a Shure V15-III (Jico HE) and after fiddleing with the grounding(tying the Z-100 and the 800 together and then to the Wall ground got rid of all hum) I've got a system that sounds like a BLACK HOLE now. With the 800 all the way up, there is just the barest hint of hiss at the speakers (ear 1' away). Pacing is good, separation is good, with no fatigue after 10 sides.

This thing is a joy to listen to.

On to the ZERO 100

Thanks ARKAY. Like i told Fran, I've been "lusting over one of these" for Decades (No peanut farmer jokes guys) basically since they came out. The arm actually makes sense in execution. Application of it could be better by 2000 standards but for 1970 it was'nt too bad. Someone should try and improve on it. God knows, with all the stuff they've improved on in the last 50 years they could probably do this too. But then I like old cars more than the new one's too.

The ZERO 100 took some work. Disassembled the whole thing. Good thing the SL-72B parts unit I have has a similar if not identical mechanism as i forgot a couple of items how they came out and went back. The wiring is now right. It could use some new tonearm cables, but right now they are working fine for me. The Size selector took it's time freeing up, and I had to heat the bushing on the upper mechanism (use a soldering iron). to get it freed up so i could clean it. Now most everything is cleaned and lubed, and I stole the idler from the 72B. Sending the Z-100's idler to Terry for rehab. The Tonearm works great, and has no quirks now. A slight wobble on the strobe is from the idler. but it maintains speed all day long and doesn't drift off setting like some DUAL's. There is no Inner channel distortion that I can hear, and sibilance is ZERO. DSOTM actually improved in SQ over the SL-1700 with the V15III. And all my Glenn Miller just sound so damn lifelike it's scary. I wanted to break out my Trombone from High school, and then remembered my oldest son across town has it. Thank God. I don't think my neighbors could have stood that. :D

Right now the KLH 20's will do until I get the SP-200's recapped next week.

I'm wondering, how would 4 KLH 20's stacked sound. hooked up like Dynaco did for the A-25's. With them @ 4oHm I'd have to hook up in Series. Which would give me 8oHms per side. I might try this and see. Other wise it's just gonna be two 8oHm units with maybe a center speaker.

Larry
 
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Hi Larry,
That's some nice stuff you got there enjoy, up here in the east past the Hudson
there not to many places you can get stuff like that, unless you look really hard,
but I'm still looking!

Tube
 
Just use the four ohm taps if you use two 8 ohm output speakers in parallel. Use the 16 ohm taps if in series.
 
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Got some parts from Mouser today.
1.) Swapped in 400V and 800V .1uf OD's and 220K resistors. I want a baseline and OD's give me one. Current tubes are worn Westinghouse (Eico Branded) 7591's.
2.) Made up an individual Tube Bias Board. This board is Drew Boyce's design originally for the 400. I copied it for the 800. All fit on a 2x2 board from Ratshack.Disconnected the original wiring for the bias, and connected the board up. Red is Bias B+, Black Ground and bluegreen is out to tubes.
Removed R 119-R122-C92 as per Drew's schematic for the 400. These are the 800C equivalent of the 400 parts. For those with 500C's that are doing this remove R131-R132-C86. Did some clean up in the BIAS Section around the Dual 1K caps. I have a matched 7591EH on the way from Jim McShane, I made the changes to accomodate the EH's. I broke one last week, and I had the numbers that Jim put on the tube. Luckily, He had a tube with parameters that were close enough to match nicely.

I brought it up on the variac, and did an initial check on bias. ma's all over the place with all the pots centered. So adjusted to 29ma for all and let it cook for 30 minutes.
After 30 minutes checked all tubes plus pin 3 and 4 voltages.

PIN......Tube V10.............V11..............V13...............V14.....
3..............................413VDC across the board...........................
4..............................376VDC across the board...........................
5.................29.9ma........29.9ma..........33.0ma...........29.5ma
6...............-15.38V.........-15.48V.........-16.7V............-15.06

To double check, I reset all the BIAS Voltage to -17V Tubes biased as follows:
..................22.9ma.........25.0ma..........31.4ma...........24.6ma

After an hour, I reset the Bias to 30.0 ma.on all tubes. The outers (V10-V14) are showing -16.24 and -16.41. The inners (V11-V13) are showing
-17.24v and -17.41V. I can live with that for now, until the new tube shows up and I reset the new tubes.

The mess with the big caps inside I'll rectify with Can Caps from Tom @ Hayseed Hamfest. I've had good results with the product and with them made to current equivalent of original spec, it should work as originally intended.

It's coming along. Now to play it for a while and see if I want to change the caps to K40Y's or not. My 400 has them and I like the sound in the 400;

Larry


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Larry...
Not having any serious electronics background, I'm going to make a stab in the dark on this one.

I guess I didn't understand Drew's schematic as well as I needed to.
When he noted "existing components", I took it to mean "no need to mess beyond these points".
IndBiasSupply.jpg


I did leave the pot @ R119, but did not remove R122 and C92.

So as a guess...the 33uF eletrolytic cap (I think I know why its an electrolytic :scratch2:) and the 12K resistor on the IBAM perform the function of C92 and R122?
Also consequently no need for any resistor at R119.

Like i said...I'm guessing.
If I have it all wrong, could you please explain the reason for removing them.

martin
 
Like i said...I'm guessing.
If I have it all wrong, could you please explain the reason for removing them.

martin[/QUOTE]

From what I understand (I'm an electronics noob also, but an old noob) the board parts replace the originals, part for part. Values are different as it's now split into 4 sections.

God knows I've tried to understand the math behind it all but I get lost right after Watts = Volts X amps (or the other two variations on Ohms Law.) For example I really don't understand the math involved in a 10oHm resistor changing volts to ma. I just know to move the decimal to the left one place. When it comes to trying to do math to figure tube dissipation, forget it. I just don't have the skill set there.

Getting back to the parts. the pots on the IBAM perform the same function as R119. They need full voltage to work correctly. Unless you have pot R119 wide open, your readings on the other side will be suspect. Better to remove it, R122, C92 and document for future owners.

I'm gonna redo the mod on the 400. I've got the right parts to make it look as nice as it works. Then on to the Sansui 1000A for the same thing. But not Drews version.

Larry

Larry
 
Larry...
I was just feeling the need for a mod "fix".
Or in this case...fix what's not right.
Time to open her up again. Will document any noticable changes.
Still need to learn to check the voltages on the 12AX7's. Will revisit your instructions...if I can remember where I left them.
Thanks for clarifying the IBAM.
martin
 
Martin. Basically just remove the 10K pot, R122, and C92. Should take all of 10 minutes max. Then reset the bias to the tubes. and enjoy the hell outta it.

It's realy quite simple. But the results from such a simple mod is nothing short of astounding. I did this a couple months ago in my 400 and it brought out most all of the hidden sounds I'd been missing. I've got those 7868's consistantly pushing 14.2Watts each where before the ma spread was all over. Now it's balanced across the board.

I got the EH7591A today for the 800C, and installed it and did some tweaking with the new tubes. 35ma @ 415V gives me 14.52W per tube. And they are rock steady. Over 4 hours of warm up and running, they haven't drifted. 3 of the 4 shift between 35.02 and 35.03 and the 4th is rock steady @ 35.01ma. The sound quality over 28-29ma ea (12W) is "WTF did this thing come from!!!!!!!!" I'm only putting the Volume @ about 2 where 3 - 3&1/2 was norm. Tone controls are centered and Loudness is OFF. And the Bass is Nice and punchy, the Mids are full, and the highs are clear, with instrumental Brass not shrill. Listening to Baja Marimba, and TJ Brass is a joy now. It's a MEMOREX Moment...........

Larry

One added bonus(if you can call it that) with the EH's that I never had with the 7591's in FM STEREO (STEREO ONLY) is a slight Reverb or Live Auditorium effect. Mono doesn't have this. It's weird hearing it for the first time. But it DO SOUND RIGHT!
 
Larry,

Wow .. glad that 800 is coming around and very glad you are getting the maximum out of it.

Frannie
 
Larry...
I removed the bias pot, C92 and R122 (brn, grn, orng - 15K).
Then moved the IBAM neg (-) bias supply wire directly to the neg leads of C95 (1000uf caps)

Here are the numbers before removal...

V10
pin3 430V
pin4 388V
pin5 30.01mA
pin6 -17.12

V11
pin3 430V
pin4 388V
pin5 29.82mA
pin6 -17.30

V13
pin3 430V
pin4 388V
pin5 30.45mA
pin6 -17.30

V14
pin3 430V
pin4 388V
pin5 31.25mA
pin6 -17.54

And after...
neg lead @ C95 -24.64

V10
pin3 449V
pin4 413V
pin5 8.06mA
pin6 -23.13

V11
pin3 449V
pin4 413V
pin5 7.59mA
pin6 -23.55

V13
pin3 449V
pin4 413V
pin5 8.57mA
pin6 -23.60

V14
pin3 449V
pin4 413V
pin5 9.13mA
pin6 -23.54

So what did I miss?
These numbers are definatly not better and there's not enough range in the IBAM pots to move the numbers into the appropriate ranges.

Thanks
Martin
 
Agreed; Post the adjustment range on the pots for each tube. I wonder if you wired the board wrong. You should be able to get a variable here.

Something's definately wrong. Your bias voltage @ C95 should be no higher than -22 volts. Between -21-22. You need to drop the voltage 3-5 volts due to the new rectifier. At the junction of R119/122 it shows -17V to the tube bias, but the IBAM should take care making the drop.

Center the pots and take a reading between the pot and the 12K resistor. And again after the 12k resistor. It should be right around -17 to -18V.

IIRC you are using OLD tubes that haven't been tested????


Larry
 
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Larry...
First I'd like to make sure I removed the correct cap and resistor.

IBPMinstalled-1-1.jpg


At present...

AC line voltage 121V

C95 -24.64

with pot at center...

before 12K resistor -23.50

after 12K resistor -22.52

pin 6 -23.06

what do ya' think? :scratch2:

martin
 
Forget the tubes for right now. Lets get your bias supply voltage correct. Output from the rectifier has changed when the rectifer was changed. It needs to be about -17V at the terminal strip where the 10K pot was.

Put C92 and R122 back in. They are shunting off enough of the extra Bias voltage to give you about -17V.


Larry
 
Got the tube from Jim McShane a few days ago and the Knob bright's from Ebay. glued them on and Installed the matched quad (EH7591A) again, and centered the pots on the Bias Board. With -17 V the tubes were drawing about 32ma. I figured out how much draw I needed to get 16Watts per tube and set them to 38ma. that's about 80% of max dissipation. this is after 1 hour of warm up. After 3 hours of cooking, the tubes never budged. ROCK SOLID voltages, and Current Draw. It's acting like new.

I had some flooding last week in the basement after Irene. Lost the Cabinets for my Nova 8B's, one SP-200, One SP-2500. A Grundig and Magnavox Console. The guts were salvaged and saved. The drivers didn't get wet(thank god!). All cabinets were trashboard with veneer and swelled by 30% and split or fell apart. All the plywood cabinets that got wet, had no problems.

Gonna have to learn how to build new cabinets for the speakers.

Larry



Larry
 
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