LPs to outlast CDs!

similost said:
A CD can be resurfaced.. but it's not the scratches on the bottom side that's the problem.. it's when you scratch the label that the CD becomes trash..

I've got old CD's that don't play any more.. they degraded and became coasters..
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Yep or if the dye starts to degrade over time...
 
I've yet to see a commercial CD become unreadable if the surface isn't damaged. I've got a bunch from the early 80s.

On the other hand, I have a lot of coasters among disks I burned myself.

There are several ways of manufacturing CDs, but commercial releases are more durable, in my experience.
 
The technology to make vinyl LP's is far simpler and easier to maintain under low production volumes. That alone may guarantee the survival of LP's. Also the fact that the "kids" are getting into it again. Popularity has never been about sound quality, although good vinyl sounds as good as anything you could want.
 
although good vinyl sounds as good as anything you could want.
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It doesn't sound as good as I want.

I want the 80 dB of dynamic range (minimum) that classical music requires.

I will grant two important things: One, that CDs don't usually provide anything like this, and two, that LPs sound a lot better after I figured out how to clean them.
 
Phototone said:
the "kids" are getting into it again. Popularity has never been about sound quality
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Bingo.

Records are making a come-back beacuse of the 20-30 year old hipsters. They don't care about quality. All they care about is that they listen to their music on a format that isn't widely popular and that it never will be. If stores like Best Buy start carrying more and more vinyl they'll jump ship to some other obscure format. Perhaps the rebirth of reels is yet to come? I don't know.
 
I've heard a lot of crappy sounding LP's... just because it's vinyl, doesn't mean what they stamped into it was a quality recording..
 
I would suspect that anybody in charge of anything at any company trying to make a profit on anything would downplay something the company doesn't want to support anymore.
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"Vinyl will definitely outlast CDs because of the resonance, the sound" predicts Lyor Cohen, chief of recorded music at Warner Music Group. The quality is closest to the way the artist wants you to hear it."
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When they were trying to kill off records they couldn't say enough good things about the new CDs. Now CD sales are on the wane and Warner sells off it's RHINO division, and goes waffling back to the good old days.

When I go into what passes for music stores these days I confront offerings from "artists" I have never heard of before playing "music" I have never heard of before for prices I have never seen before. Couple the unfamiliarity with no way to know what is on the overpriced media and it is easy to understand why I mostly leave empty handed. Add to THAT the fact that the record companies are catering to too many niche groups to make profits on any recording endeavor and it's easy to see why sales are off. Following their present priorities I don't think they could turn things around if they would re-commit to selling vinyl.
 
ec1st said:
I would suspect that anybody in charge of anything at any company trying to make a profit on anything would downplay something the company doesn't want to support anymore.
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"Vinyl will definitely outlast CDs because of the resonance, the sound" predicts Lyor Cohen, chief of recorded music at Warner Music Group. The quality is closest to the way the artist wants you to hear it."
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When they were trying to kill off records they couldn't say enough good things about the new CDs. Now CD sales are on the wane and Warner sells off it's RHINO division, and goes waffling back to the good old days.

When I go into what passes for music stores these days I confront offerings from "artists" I have never heard before playing "music" I have never heard before for prices I have never seen before. Couple the unfamiliarity with no way to know what is on the overpriced media and it is easy to understand why I mostly leave empty handed. Add to THAT the fact that the record companies are catering to too many niche groups to make profits on any recording endeavor and it's easy to see why sales are off. Following their present priorities I don't think they could turn things around if they would re-commit to selling vinyl.
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To each their own. I am thankful every day that the record companies have backed those niche groups. The day I'm stuck with the 10 bands that somebody else has decided that I'll like, is the day I take up a different pastime.
 
I can see that vinyl is good for artists and record companies because it can't be copied without loss.

Anything I hear from them about quality will be filtered through that knowledge.
 
JohnVF said:
Along that same train of thought- I don't understand why we get in 'format wars' so often around here. LPs, CDs- they don't have feelings. They aren't sentient beings. They're just things that store music. And the music can be played back entirely adequately from either storage medium. And done with the right gear, they sound remarkable alike in their ability to store the music for playback. Anything that holds music makes me happy, and in my book, is 'good'.
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My guess is because its a debate that touches on music, nostalgia, emotions, technology, age vs youth, etc. A volatile mix if there ever was one.

There are lots of people out there who see LPs as a solid connection to the music of their youth. Music is a very emotional medium and all the more so to older people who have their albums. Proclaiming vinyl's superiority, whether true or not, is a way of holding on to something and putting the brakes on at least a small part of technological change that is proceeding at a rapid clip.

At the same time, there are those who may see mastering the latest digital medium as proof of how current or savvy they are or how they embrace the future. LPs are archaic relics of another time.

So I reckon there is often more between the lines when these debates come up.:)
 
ec1st said:
When I go into what passes for music stores these days I confront offerings from "artists" I have never heard of before playing "music" I have never heard of before for prices I have never seen before. Couple the unfamiliarity with no way to know what is on the overpriced media and it is easy to understand why I mostly leave empty handed. Add to THAT the fact that the record companies are catering to too many niche groups to make profits on any recording endeavor and it's easy to see why sales are off. Following their present priorities I don't think they could turn things around if they would re-commit to selling vinyl.
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Sounds like you need to broaden your musical horizons. There's a lot of really good music out there these days from groups you've never heard of. And for the record, I'm not a hipster in my 20's, I'm a rural dad in my 40's.

-D
 
js1138 said:
[Vinyl] doesn't sound as good as I want.

I want the 80 dB of dynamic range (minimum) that classical music requires. ...
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That and the pitch accuracy and stability that comes with a good digital playback system playing well-recorded material. With one exception that I know of, analog turntables can't compensate for off-center records. If you have an off-center recording and want to hear the music on it, you grit your teeth and listen through the pitch waver. Poorly-engineered turntables can also add audible wow and flutter and/or pitch inaccuracy to every record they play, including the vast majority that are pressed on center.
 
Jack Lord said:
future. LPs are archaic relics of another time.
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Isn't it amazing how we hang onto a technology that is basically ancient, but it still works, and people still love it? Seems like with all the technology there is today, we'd be WAY beyond vinyl, tape, CD, and even MP3.. BUt NOooooooo... we got the RIAA screwing it all up, and killing technological advances...

I say we get rid of the new NASCAR, and go back to it's roots too.. Lots more exciting, and still a usable technology..

236079765542df3275fd_1.jpg
 
There are two exceptions (both the Nak Dragon CT and Nak TX-1000) which allowed for correction of off center records. The group of off center records includes every record ever pressed. As the former owner of the Nak Dragon CT, however, I can't say that I ever heard any effect before and after centering even on wildly off center pressings. I kind of chalked it up to being an ideal to have it centered, but probably not all that audibly important. Kind of like changing VTA a thousandth of a degree. Maybe others could hear it, but I wasn't one of them, thankfully.

It does make me wonder what the audible effect should have been? There was certainly no pitch waver going on.
 
similost said:
Isn't it amazing how we hang onto a technology that is basically ancient, but it still works, and people still love it? Seems like with all the technology there is today, we'd be WAY beyond vinyl, tape, CD, and even MP3.. BUt NOooooooo... we got the RIAA screwing it all up, and killing technological advances...

I say we get rid of the new NASCAR, and go back to it's roots too.. Lots more exciting, and still a usable technology..

236079765542df3275fd_1.jpg
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I don't think it's the RIAA, it's that 99.9% of the general public doesn't give a flying $^#&.
 
I think people have tried to change things.. FLAC, OOG, MP3, all things the labels have despised and tried to avoid for years.. and still are trying to......

Wonder how we'd be listening to music if the RIAA and labels had tried to invent and push new technologies?
 
cactuscowboy said:
The vast majority of music listeners own either CDs or Ipods. And CDs are rapidly falling out of favor. I'm routinely seeing CD collections at yard sales, with prices ranging from a quarter to a buck apiece. The story is always the same, they ripped the CDs to their computer, downgraded the files and loaded them on an Ipod. An Ipod and a black plastic piece of crap "dock" with two tiny speakers is all the 'stereo system' that a lot of folks want or need.
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I love these type of folks for providing me with music on the cheap. Especially music that I have either never heard or have always wanted to hear. If I like it, I keep a mental note to keep an eye out for a copy on vinyl.

For me it doesn't matter if it is cd or vinyl, as long as it sounds good! :music:
 
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