Main rig versus Vintage rigs

ehoove

ehoove

Old & New - Carpe Diem
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A few months ago I was lucky to enjoy a few hours listening to the best rig I have ever listened to. High end - well thought out, and meticulously executed. Since then I have gravitated to my main rig, and realized as good as my vintage rigs are they have been delegated to casual listening/background listening.

This is not a dish of them, just a realization of what they are. The Yamaha CR2040/NS640MkI combo is a fantastic pairing, but even fed by a modern SACD player(Marantz SA8003), and a heavily modified Thorens TD160/Project9CC tonearm with a modified CA 640P etc, they come nowhere close to my main rig for critical listening.

My main rig is a combination of high end vintage mid-modern and modern gear that continues to amaze, and astound me.

Vintage is great, but to me a combination of high end mid-vintage and modern gear is superlative on several levels. IMHO

Regards,
Jim
 
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I agree with what you're saying.

I have two set ups, my main and my vintage.

The vintage one is great but i only listen to it for specific things or at certain times when i'm in the mood. But my main rig, which is all mid-modern and modern, is where i do the majority of my listening and is endlessly better for critical listening.

I'm not as fascinated by vintage though as many others on this site are and i set up my vintage rig with the intention of it being a side rig, i.e. not main.
 
:thmbsp:
Thanks for this post Jim. It gave me occasion to look at my main rig and ponder what it actually is.
A pair of state of the art tube monoblocks. From 1958.
A revolutionary preamp from 1978.
The best turntable Yamaha offered in the '80's.
The 2000's version of a speaker first introduced in the mid-80's.
Upper-mid-fi digital sources from the 2010's.

A combination of things from five different decades, but darned if they don't work well together.
 
In the future I was thinking I would like to set up a small hi-end, something leaning towards a near field monitors maybe those KRK's like Theophile fell in love with or I think I read something like Totem's, and maybe one of those Laben amps, and a brand new TT, just the basics, small yet all quality stuff.
 
I don't know if I can decide on a "Main System" Im always switching things around. Or in other word the grass is always greener on the other side of the road.
 
I have a quite high end, thoroughly modern "main rig", which I adore, but because of where it is in the house, I listen to it less than I do my vintage rig (both rigs listed in my sig below). I never feel slighted by my vintage rig in the least, and love listening to it, but there are things the main rig does that the vintage rig just can't, mostly in terms of soundstage definition and realism.
 
Well since you like the sound of the ribbon tweeters in the Magneplanars, you could not have had that sound until the mid-80s as they were not available, 82 for Tympani and 84 for MG-III. There might have been some speaker with exceptional characteristics back then...Beveridge, Quad some expensive statement pieces, maybe, but there has been a lot of improvement in speaker material of construction over the years. This makes mid-vintage speakers a very nice addition. Good availability, good prices and lots of information on making them better. Tri-amping your Magneplanars is one of those readily available bits of information making your rig so nice.

I would think the amps, tables, arms and cartridges could be nearly equaled with vintage but that crossover needed VLSIs and computer technology to accomplish what it does so easily. And you have vintage tables and arms.

I tend to agree that the vintage we usually discuss is nice but there was quite a bit higher Fi available back then. You have heard me ask for a place to discuss HIGH END vintage and seen it fall on deaf ears. Something that would be on par with your main rig using the more limited availability gear from the past would be nice to hear and hard to put together because of this limited availability. But discussing Bryston, Krell, Classé, Meridan's line of products, Audio Research and many other brands would be nice. The community is large enough to have some with experience, possibly ones selling the gear back then bring their knowledge allowing us to get a better idea about this less frequently seen equipment. Heck it might even bring in a new group of members with this gear, subscribing and making it available so they can get something different.

I'm in a similar boat to 4-2-7, swapping gear, frequently and using a mix of vintage and mid-vintage, too. Fortunately, when I haven't heard the main rig in a while using and of the systems in the house bring pleasure in just hearing music.

Maybe one day I can hear that main rig of yours. Seems you really enjoy it as you should with all that has improved in it in the last few years.
 
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What is the definition of high-end and top quality?

Is it distortion, or channel separation, S/N ratio, etc? Is there a certain level of specs that make something top end? Maybe it's something simple like a certain dollar value?

For example, go and have a look at the specs of the Yamaha CR-2040 and then check the specs of the latest Yamaha AS-2000. Certainly there is some differences there, but we are talking about a fraction of a percent. So, what makes the new Yamaha better than the old one? I'm assuming the new AS-2000 is top end... but as I am not sure what the criteria is for top end the AS-2000 could be mid level?

I love vintage and I love new. I guess I am trying to figure out, other than a monetary line in the sand, the criteria that makes something high end.

Ninja Edit: Went hunting for a definition and found this. http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/40/index.html
 
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It's "high end" not top end or top of the line. It's not really about dollar value or price although high end gear has always been pricey. In fact a lot of current high end gear is priced so high only a very few can afford it.

For example, Pioneer speakers are not thought of as high end. While TAD speakers from the same designer are. With the exception of the GT-2000 TT most Yamaha gear isn't considered high end while anything from Accuphase is. From the US Bryston, Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Krell, Pass Labs and Boulder amongst others are thought of as high end. From England Linn, Chord, Meridian and Audio Note are definitely considered to be high end. From Germany Burmester, Symphonic Line and MBL are considered to be high end.

Another example; All Quad electrostatic speakers are considered to be high end while conventional box speakers from Quad are not.

Receivers have generally never been considered high end. Only a few integrated amplifiers are considered high end. Most high end gear is usually the brainchild of one engineer/designer/builder that has grown out of the hobbyist garage stage. The emphasis is on performance and the vision of the designer.

The "high end" is a lot like Lewis Armstrong's quote about Jazz; "If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.”
 
I consider most of my components to be "High End", but almost all of them are also "vintage". Probably, many date from before some here were even born.

...sadly, I bought most of it new. :scratch2: :D
 
mccarty350 said:
FYI, tried to view your rigs but the link showed up 'invalid album id'.
Click to expand...

Others have said that, but I have never had that happen. :scratch2:

Here is the gear in my rigs:

Main Rig > Audio Research LS15 - MS Phonomena II, MS Phonomena w/battery pack, Acurus A200(2), Acurus A200X3, Beringer DCX2496-NHT X1 Crossovers,Thorens TD125AB/Magnapan Unitrac1/Dynavector DV20Xm-VPI (Stereo), Thorens TD150AB/Jelco 750D/Audio Technica AT33Mono Ltd. Edt. (Mono), Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD, Teac A4300 R2R, Squeeze Box Touch, Maple Framed Magnepan MGIIIa(tri-amped), NHT W2 Sub(2)

Vintage 1> Yamaha CR2040, Hypnotoad CA640P phono stage, Thorens TD160/ Project 9cc/AudioTechnica AT14sa, Marantz SA8003 SACD, Yamaha NS690 MkI
Vintage 2> Yamaha CR840, , Kenwood KD500/Magnapan Unitrac1/Sonus Blue Gold, Philips 963sa SACD, Modded Sony SS-TL1 Transmission Line 2way.

Regards,
Jim
 
Don't get me wrong, my tag line says it all. (Old and New - Carpe Diem) I have been through a lot of different gear to get the main rig where it is, and some is newer gear some is older with the older mostly modified, and it works for me. A few years ago while building the main rig I started out with vintage signature pieces McIntosh C28/MC2100 etc, and even after I had Terry Dewick go through them was just not satisfied with them. A move to a H/K 17s/Adcom GFA545 combo got me closer, then I stumbled on the Acurus A200 and have been there since, going tri-amp with 3 of them.

As I said I still really enjoy my vintage rigs, especially the CR2040/NS690MkI combo, as they remind my of how good gear really was back in the day, but they do not provide the level of performance that the main rig does.

I will say that in the main rig, the addition of the ARC LS15 preamp and Sony SCD-5400ES SACD player took it to the next level. These are to me high end pieces that compliment my older Acurus amps nicely driving my modified 1984 Magnapan MGIIIa's superbly. :D

I agree with Blue Shadow that a Vintage High End forum would be interesting to many members, and allow members to discover the magic in rare high end signature pieces from the past.

Regards,
Jim
 
at the rate where anything is High End on that auction site i bet such forum will be pretty troublesome
 
river25 said:
What is the definition of high-end and top quality?

Is it distortion, or channel separation, S/N ratio, etc? Is there a certain level of specs that make something top end? Maybe it's something simple like a certain dollar value?

For example, go and have a look at the specs of the Yamaha CR-2040 and then check the specs of the latest Yamaha AS-2000. Certainly there is some differences there, but we are talking about a fraction of a percent. So, what makes the new Yamaha better than the old one? I'm assuming the new AS-2000 is top end... but as I am not sure what the criteria is for top end the AS-2000 could be mid level?
Click to expand...

Specs don't tell the full story. Two amps can have identical specs yet sound different.

The Fez compared an AS-2000 with the fully overhauled CA-1010 which I restored for him, and the AS prevailed.
 
ehoove said:
Don't get me wrong, my tag line says it all. (Old and New - Carpe Diem) I have been through a lot of different gear to get the main rig where it is, and some is newer gear some is older with the older mostly modified, and it works for me. A few years ago while building the main rig I started out with vintage signature pieces McIntosh C28/MC2100 etc, and even after I had Terry Dewick go through them was just not satisfied with them. A move to a H/K 17s/Adcom GFA545 combo got me closer, then I stumbled on the Acurus A200 and have been there since, going tri-amp with 3 of them.

As I said I still really enjoy my vintage rigs, especially the CR2040/NS690MkI combo, as they remind my of how good gear really was back in the day, but they do not provide the level of performance that the main rig does.

I will say that in the main rig, the addition of the ARC LS15 preamp and Sony SCD-5400ES SACD player took it to the next level. These are to me high end pieces that compliment my older Acurus amps nicely driving my modified 1984 Magnapan MGIIIa's superbly. :D

I agree with Blue Shadow that a Vintage High End forum would be interesting to many members, and allow members to discover the magic in rare high end signature pieces from the past.

Regards,
Jim
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Just my observation I would venture to say your "High End/Main Rig" is better to you because it's really your "Priority Rig" That system gets the best pieces you have that work together for you. Some of the pieces that used to be apart of it then get relegated to other systems or sold. There for you will feel better enjoyment from your Priority Rig that gets the best room in the house. Not to mention you focus is alined to the music.

Kind of like what I said in my first comment.
I don't know if I can decide on a "Main System" Im always switching things around. Or in other word the grass is always greener on the other side of the road.

As many pieces it appears that you have is from a constant search. I will also say Im sure some of you main rig will be stepping off the podium soon. Maybe a new turntable with that special cartridge you always wanted if there was a few more spare dollars.

I don't believe any of this has to do with Vintage TOTL vs Current TOTL...
 
4-2-7 said:
I don't know if I can decide on a "Main System" Im always switching things around. Or in other word the grass is always greener on the other side of the road.
Click to expand...

I only have space enough for a "main" system, but that's constantly changing and except for the Squeezebox all vintage.
 
4-2-7 said:
I don't know if I can decide on a "Main System" Im always switching things around. Or in other word the grass is always greener on the other side of the road.
Click to expand...

Did you ever stop to think that why maybe that grass on the other side of the road is greener? It might be due to the farmer using more manure on it....?:D
 
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