MC205 vs. MC255....anyone make the switch?? Any real world exp?? Midwest region dealers??

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Audible Nectar

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SSIA. Curious if anyone here has made the switch and has any comments. In the market for a Mc five channel amp and since the 205 has recently departed and the 255 is now the current version, I'm curious if anyone has any hands on experience with the newer version. Seems the capacitance has been boosted 50%, went to a "three channel front" option, but as the 205 has been around for over a decade (apparently doing something "right" by being viable that long) I might opt for a late model version of the 205. I investigated a few examples of the 205 but all are out of driving range (if I'm buying used/private party I'm not shipping and really prefer not to in any case) and I'm flexible distancewise in that regard, but since that was coming up bumpkis for results I wondered about new options.

Another aspect is that the dealers in my region don't really have showrooms or the specific product in question - they just order it if you want it and don't have a lot of in shop listening experience with the 255 in particular. It just seems like when talking to dealers it's this theoretical "thing" that even they haven't handled much (that's understandable but it seems a lot of these Mac dealers don't have showrooms but consulting setups where they order-to-suit and just build it in). I'd do a six/eight hour trek one way to do this right with a dealer and maybe even a bit further. Definitely on the "wanna get this right" train. I could phone a local dealer and just order a 255, but a 5-8K purchase sorta begs for me to be investigating how best to do that in the current, as I only set foot in a local B&M recently for the first time in forever, as we haven't had them here let alone a Mac dealer where aside from Magnolia 3+ hours away have no real idea how to approach a Mac B&M dealer sale. This from a guy who went to places like this site or the usual hobbyist sites to find the gears I want for decades, but was in the biz prior.

I also wonder where a Mac SS amp like this goes for warranty service. I know where my vintage SS goes, tube gear, etc because I learned all that stuff but what about a modern Mac amp? Is there a "midwest service central" these beasts get sent to? What's involved in that part of ownership if it comes to that?

I am in Western IL, would travel to other midwest locations to work on this/pick up/see/etc whatever :-) It's weird as I haven't tried to set foot in a Mac dealer in years and short of a locator with addresses have no idea what I'm really looking at (installer/consultant or actual showroom with geeks who preen/know that stuff like the backs of their hands......)

So I'm narrowing my approach from considering an assemblage of vintage Macs to power the theater to an all-in-one solution for the multichannel room, and want to get something I can live with for a couple decades and get it right the first time. With recent events, it seems we are in a bit of an "in between" state with the 205/255 in terms of actual units in the field, not a lot out there specifically on the new one although it's been in existence since late 2019??? I think?

So any comments??

Amp will be powering five Cornwalls in a 5.2 configuration, MX151 as preamp. This seems the last major choice to be made on the rebuild, so before I spend 5-8K I'd like to find out what I can find out before I do so :-)
 
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I have owned a 207 almost from the beginning of the production cycle and as I wanted to bi amp the front center and rear speakers I added one of the last a few months ago. That said I also completed my stereo system adding XRT 28 speakers. The two spare channels I had left over from the HT system I was going to use to drive my XRT 28's. Using one channel from each 207. Well being a 4 ohm load if the channels were really pushed the amps would heat up and shut down with power guard light just barley flashing. Now with the speakers I use for HT I have never had an issue but then they are 6 db more efficient so the 207's were never pushed that hard. Well I ordered a pair of MC 830 and there is a difference in the top two octaves. I attribute that to the thermal tracking transistors and other newer designs and stronger power supplies. Seeing how the 255 and 257 are using the new transistors and stronger power supplies I would say that they should be an improvement just like my 830's are. I am not saying the 205/207 are inferior I am just saying the newer 255/257 amps with newer technology are more revealing in the highs when driving lower impedance speakers. Both series of amps are very listenable and enjoyable, I just feel in my case that a 600 watt per channel capable 830 is better than a 250 watt capable 205/207. There is a weak ness in the New multi channel units in that if you pushing the entire system you loose the extra power available for the front channels of the 255/257. But if you you using the correct speakers you will never have an issue. With mono and stereo direct coupled amps the 4 ohm taps easily put put 66 to 80 % more power at 4 ohms than 8 ohms. Not so with the HT amps.

But I will say Mac HT Power amps will put out full rated power and more so than other manufacturers HT amps. Such as Marantz, Sony, Yamaha, Nad and other middle of the time amps. Denon quit making its separates as they couldn't compete. Maybe Mac will make a replacement for the 303 soon. That way you'll be able to find a pre-owned one at a great price. Then you can use a stereo amp for the rears and another smaller unit for the sides. As you are using a 151 like I am the rear/side amps aren't required to be of the same high quality as the front three. If I were buying three new front speakers I would be using separate mono amps for the front and sell my older 207.. Keeping the newest one for the rear, sides, and other applications. 207's are great amps, 205's also.
 
My "issue" is a bit different than yours. You have used (in the past) fairly inefficient speakers that has demanded full power/workhorse load to your amps. I like that aspect of your experiences, that you have pushed these.

I'll never see that.

My speakers are Klipsch Cornwalls, AND in a room that's a bit "smallish" for the size of the system, the 200W X 5 should be PLENTY in terms of power, as my speakers, even in movie situations, will be living at the 250 milliwatt to one watt area most of the time - and on peaks, it will be living at 10 watts. Everything else is "reserve". So in that sense, I think the 205 has enough "oomph" to drive five Cornwalls, in the sense that it will NOT be asked to do 200 x 5.....but in the McIntosh tradition it's sure a good thing to know that it can.

It's going to be asked to excel at the OTHER "end" of it's operational range. I need it to do a "tap dance" at 250 milliwatts, not having the amp "fall apart" in it's presentation at conversational listening volume. I have an Outlaw (ATI lineage) Model 750 that's actually pretty good when "opened up", especially for the cost paid. But at 250 milliwatts, it's not happening, sufficiently not happening enough in a multichannel music system that demands proper performance at low wattage.

THIS is what I come to spend 5-8K for.

I (from the other thread) actually considered taking my MC250s and buying a pair of MC2100 and having them reworked, to give a 100 X 5 amplification to this system. All autoformered and I KNOW how the speakers react to it (mostly really good). Trouble is that it's running about 4K raw cost for two MC2100 that look good enough to bring in here - and I'm not super picky on that but rust don't fly with WAF when approaching five figures worth of expenditure. It's a nice WAF problem to have: Mac amps? Sure, just make sure they look like "something" and not a garage find. Then add 4K in rebuild cost across the four amps and I'm at 8K and that's with the two 250s already in hand. I almost did this until I lost out on two MC2100 at $1100 each that I'll likely never see again.

BUT - the more I think about it, and the more I look at my MX151, the right match for this system is a newer Mac amp. It's just easier, it's the same era/sonic signature, it just seems the logical/proper match.

So on the MC205 we're looking at used sites, and they're all on the coasts (like 1200-2000 mile drive) and the one that is driving distance has misaligned fins and power supply banks (like Mac never sent it out like that, LOL). I'm really weird about shipping stuff, my luck is horrid and I will go get it to avoid issues. Did that on my MX151 to keep it perfect as it was when I took possession of it. I've actually called a couple dealers and will call more today to see if any are still in the pipeline/in on trade type stuff in addition to asking about the 255.

On the MC255, if it were just another incarnation of the 205 I'd just buy the 205 and forget about it, but the 255 is a bit more interesting on further inspection than it would first appear cosmetically. First is the added 50% capacitance in the power supply (which I truly believe will improve bass response and overall performance) but how it also can be done 250 X 3 as a front soundstage amplifier while having another amp drive the rears. That scenario does have me wondering in that case whether there would be a proper matching "rear option" for a two channel amp (direct coupled) that would match the 205/255 sonic signature as it seems the two channel SS offerings of late are autoformered.I suppose an MC152 or even a pair of 250s would work :-) But much in the same way Mac would have a user buy an MC303 as front soundstage amp, then other amps to drive the effects speakers around the system makes it an interesting "in-between" doing an MC303 plus MC152 (now at $16000) where an MC255 and another two channel amp could be done for about 4-5K less.

It's also good in the rack, as an MC205/255 is a more compact and easy to set up arrangement than a 2 X MC2100/MC250 arrangement or an MC303/MC152 would be.

But it's ALL theoretical as I have yet to find a dealer who shows any of this stuff on a sales floor where it can be heard. Granted recent events have had an effect too, both on stock as well as the "in person demo" experience, but as I'm looking at current/late model Mac figured it worthy to ask about dealers too, as my only "dealer" in audio in recent decades has been sites like these. So hence the extra "digging" here. I most certainly have tried to look at all the angles.....
 
Bumpity for anyone else in the know.

Been calling midwest dealers and not learning much (aside from they can order me a 255 for list but that's about it, no one has really handled the pieces to be able to comment). I've learned more from forums like these, Mac dealers (at least the ten called so far) have been a pretty mixed bag, ranging from "we're not taking calls right now" (with no way to leave a message) to "we don't handle much of that hands on, we can order it for you with full payment at list" to "I'd like to tell you more but we're pretty much a two channel shop around here" (who were by far the best in terms of wanting to help but couldn't other than "we can place an order"). Got ONE about four hours away who is encouraging me to come there to work out something on a 255 and that's as far as they can say (only so much they can say over the phone). At least out of ten, ONE showed a desire to actually find and sell me an amp. When it comes to new I gotta start by phone because 2 hours to seven is a long way just to ask questions/window shop (for something that's pretty much looking like special order only.....)

I'm also looking at used market (typical sources) on a 205, but they are either on the coasts with no appropriate shipping options or in one case within three hours but looking like it got dropped off of a truck. I really have a feeling the 205 is "enough", it's a matter of trying to find a good example short of making that four hour drive and buying a 255. The 205 has a certain attractiveness not only in terms of price, but if I can get a later produced version from a 14+ year production run I'm pretty sure Mac had the specifics of building and servicing that amp down by then.

So I seem to be circling around these two, looking to see what I can actually obtain in the marketplace and for how much. Sent lots of emails/phone calls, got one place I might see if new is the way this goes, but still pounding the cyber pavement looking for more Information and actual buy options on a 205/255.
 
Call LMC in Scottsdale or Tempe, AZ - they'll shoot ya' straight and I guarantee they know given how much Mc they sell.
 
I think I will, if for no other reason than to see if an MC205 might still be around. They can't sell me a 255 though unless I go to them - Scottsdale/PHX is 1600 miles away. Trying to "stack" a scenario where I don't exclude that, but if they DID have an MC205 that could actually be safely sent here on a pallet that would well solve the problem. A Mac dealer can sell me a used unit "remotely" (by phone, etc - like Audio Classics does) but I have to go to them to pay for and place the order to get the 255 built (that is if I in fact go that route) then I have to go back to them to get the amplifier once Mac sends it to the specific dealer. I can't do that via a dealer in Scottsdale - make two trips to buy an MC255 that's 1600 miles away. Ain't gonna happen. But I can call and see if they have a 205, because if they do they can sell it to me without getting in trouble with Mac's dealer arrangement.

I think.

I can certainly drive to make it happen, but based on my MX151 Texas trip I'm at about an 1100 mile limit (time off considerations plus travel expense and other costs). If I'm making such a drive, I better be getting something known before I leave here. My "drive" scenario was based on finding a 205 that I would drive a day to get, drive a day to get back home (did this over three days with my MX151, the condition and price justified it). I can't do the "double drive" for the MC255 outta Scottsdale, gotta have that one a bit closer (there and back in a day, maybe??)

So this illustrates my "plight".
 
I look at my mileage @ $0.80/mile and my time at $xx/hour and there's no way I'd drive 3,200 miles for audio. They'd have to give it to me for me to break even with a local order/sale, so the risk is less to order it and see if I like it.

JMO.
 
There are costs associated with traveling to get audio gear, to be sure. 3200 miles is a bit much.

That said, the best audio deals I've ever made were those day long, one way trips. Excellent pieces that by my picking them up in person STAYED in that condition, and not "cracked in half" or attempted as such by shipping. I've also driven a number of miles to deliver gear to service people for the same reasons. I stayed "audio famished" over COVID because in part wasn't willing to ship, along with other uncertainties.

If you had the experiences I've had in that department, you would drive, too. I'm talking the most "double boxed" pieces you can list, which exceed the most stringent of shipping/packing details, destroyed. I had an amp rebuilt one time by the original designer over an "upside down drop" that was so perfectly executed that the box looked undamaged. It literally dropped dead nuts perfect on it's top and drove/separated the transformers from their base. When the amp was opened top side up, it looked PERFECT. When you opened the package and pulled the amp out you couldn't tell - until a finer tuning "tweak" of the placement on the amplifier rack revealed the literal separation of the top deck from the base of the amplifier. And since the package looked perfect on the outside, all attempts to claim the insurance were stonewalled - took the amp builder (who sent the amp out to us) MONTHS to get HALF what that amp was actually worth.

That's one of a number. I'll risk a $400 unit, or a unit sold by a dealer that they replace if the shipper screws up. But on anything used particularly, and even on expensive new, I prefer no shipper touch it ever. I'll even drive it hours to the shop best suited for repair over taking it to any "authorized counter" where it's palleted and shipped somewhere else. If it's a 5K lifer piece, I'm avoiding couriers at every turn if I can. I work too hard for my money to trust lifer pieces to the likes of UPS.
 
OK, we've taken what appears to be another step. I'll not jinx it TOO much, other than to hint that "I'll just have to find out for myself". I'm awaiting a phone call to confirm some stuff before I let said feline out of the proverbial bag.
 
I have a McIntosh MC207 that I can part with. Replacing with 2 MC601s and an MC303. Unfortunately I’m in Ottawa, Ontario. As an aside, I also had the MX150, and just replaced it with an Audiocontrol Maestro X9. Dirac is better than Room Perfect.
 
Yes your speakers, Cornwalls are 6 db more efficient than my Bozaks and for HT I seldom ever go much above 25 watts for the Left and right and 50 watts for the center as it is a small er Bozak with only two woofers instead of four like the left and right. The rear sysphpnies seldom get above 10 watts and the side B-313's which are half the size of the symphonys the same 10 watts. So when I am using 100 watts on a rare rare occasion for an explosion I doubt you would be using 20 watts. That gives 10 db of head room for very rapid peaks at higher frequencies which your meters don't respond to fully. That is an ideal situation. My stereo system line arrays are even less effiicient, but because line arrays don't follow the inverse square law with distance I seldom use more than 60 watts with them. I have 600 watts per channel form my MC 830's across 4 ohms so Like you if you get 205's I have a 10 db head room margin, also.

Remeber wasn't it Paul that said all the world needs is a great 10 watt amp, when referring to his Klipschorns. Well you have Cornwalls which require 4 db more power or about 25 watts. If I were buying Klipsch speakers I would buy Cornwalls, also. When it comes to HT finding a sub woofer strong enough to match is the issue. JBL makes some dual 15 and 18 inch professional models that respond down below 20 hz, but you would need a 2000 watt amp for peaks. Crown amps don't have any peak margin like Mac amps. But they have the high damping factors to control the JBL woofers and they're Class D amps which put out as much as 10,000 watts depending on the model and are rather cheap..
 

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twiiii said:
Yes your speakers, Cornwalls are 6 db more efficient than my Bozaks and for HT I seldom ever go much above 25 watts for the Left and right and 50 watts for the center as it is a small er Bozak with only two woofers instead of four like the left and right. The rear sysphpnies seldom get above 10 watts and the side B-313's which are half the size of the symphonys the same 10 watts. So when I am using 100 watts on a rare rare occasion for an explosion I doubt you would be using 20 watts. That gives 10 db of head room for very rapid peaks at higher frequencies which your meters don't respond to fully. That is an ideal situation. My stereo system line arrays are even less effiicient, but because line arrays don't follow the inverse square law with distance I seldom use more than 60 watts with them. I have 600 watts per channel form my MC 830's across 4 ohms so Like you if you get 205's I have a 10 db head room margin, also.

Remeber wasn't it Paul that said all the world needs is a great 10 watt amp, when referring to his Klipschorns. Well you have Cornwalls which require 4 db more power or about 25 watts. If I were buying Klipsch speakers I would buy Cornwalls, also. When it comes to HT finding a sub woofer strong enough to match is the issue. JBL makes some dual 15 and 18 inch professional models that respond down below 20 hz, but you would need a 2000 watt amp for peaks. Crown amps don't have any peak margin like Mac amps. But they have the high damping factors to control the JBL woofers and they're Class D amps which put out as much as 10,000 watts depending on the model and are rather cheap..
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I just so happen to have a couple of JBL 4648 bass reinforcement cabinets in this system:biggrin: These keep up with the Cornwalls with aplomb:bigok: Craziest story how I got them - from the JBL "tent sale" selloff from a late '90s earthquake/warehouse insurance selloff - delivered to my driveway for the tax and shipping. Like 3K worth of brand new woofer cabs for $450 bucks. I lost the parametric EQ setup I tweaked out for this as well as the pre-pro that fed them, making the current changes more imminent by the day. I actually had those JBLs really well tuned to the room, but the EQ blew and I lost the notes from a decade earlier which I used to set it up. Have a Crown CE1010 amp running those, looking to maybe get a used K2 for the new rig which I think will suit this setup really well.

Still waiting for that definitive call back on the amp, but inquiries are being made.
 
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BlindBoyGrnt said:
I have a McIntosh MC207 that I can part with. Replacing with 2 MC601s and an MC303. Unfortunately I’m in Ottawa, Ontario. As an aside, I also had the MX150, and just replaced it with an Audiocontrol Maestro X9. Dirac is better than Room Perfect.
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I had a Mac dealer mention that they had an 8207 for a pretty good price, but given that this is a five channel kit where the two channels would just "dangle" - never be used - is that even advisable?? Could I have a 207 or 8207 just hooked up to five channels with the other two just not hooked up to anything? I always pictured amps wanting a dummy load, but if there's no input signal hooked up does that mean the two channels can just be lift idle, so to speak?? The five channel setup is a permanent condition, it's not changing/going anywhere.
 
damacman said:
Yes. No problem doing that.
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I dunno why, but that just shocks the hell outta me. I figured the whole thing turns on, all seven channels, figured a load had to be hooked up to everything....

As for bi-amping, mine aren't set up that way, just no real intent or place for the two spare channels. I pretty much avoided shopping for a seven channel because I didn't want to pay for them - I suppose a case could be made that if they aren't being charged extra for, and they aren't draining from the overall power supply that the PS would be still then dedicated to the five I am using, I suppose.....
 
Got a phone call that there is an MC255 sitting at a regional dealer with my name on it. I put down a deposit a few weeks ago, as a shot in the dark and not actually thinking it would show up on any reasonable schedule, but Mac apparently birthed a unit with my name on it. Even the dealer had doubts as to that happening, but we made a deal of sorts, and here we are,

Between the continued assemblage of components a "run" will be made later this week, where within month's end we will find out just how well this bad boy mates with the new Cornwalls and it's older processor/brother.
 
The MC255 is in the house. I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that I have a brand new, factory sealed Mc amp sitting here.

Once in a lifetime. My first new Mc. I learned some things through the process, there will be stories to tell. For now, the rebuild/disassemblage/assemblage of the home theater continues, and it will be a system core of Mc.
 
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