MC2205 to MC7270 worthwhile upgrade?

jdwk

jdwk

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here is the story. I love the 2205, I really do. I have XR7 speakers that are 300W. I sometimes am rockin out and the 2205 gets pretty close to the top of the meter, once or twice I have seen the red light flash for a second (I usually monitor the amp so this doesnt happen.) I have to keep the bass below where it sounds best on certain CD's. I was thinking of upgrading mainly because I think with the power rating of the XR7's it would be better to have the 270W per channel and the 2255 is too expensive for too little of an improvement. the XR7's need more power than my SM152 Infinities did even though they are rated at 300W max also (they were ported as many of you probably know. I half thougt of getting an MC500, but that would be way too much for my (and probably MOST) speakers. I think because I mostly use cd's these days, a newer higher wattage amp will deal with the peaks better.
 
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MC7270 was my first McIntosh piece. Very nice. Can't offer a comparison as have not heard the MC2205. However, the MC7270 does have larger meters. ;)
 
The relationship between amplifier power and perceived loudness is not linear, a 3dB increase in volume requires doubling the amplifier power, 3dB is just barely detectable.
If your 2205 is driven to clipping and you are considering something that will not do that then you need at least 400-500 watts just to gain 3dB.
If you expect to play your music twice as loud as what your 2205 can do then you need 2000W amp.
All of the above assumes that your speakers can take it, in reality with the increase in power the real efficiency of speakers drop and compression sets in giving you a lot less than expected.
7270 will probably give you 1dB volume increase over 2205, not worth it in my opinion.

Vahe
 
The 2255 was a great improvement over the 2205 in sophistication and also in the way the Power Guard worked. The 72707300 were a step forward again but with the return to being a good basic amp without all the bells and whistles. These were the last of this generation of amps. Mac took a new direction. The century series MC300 etc have new autoformer design coupled with updated transistor circuit topology which allows the amps to drive complex loads and have higher peak output current into difficult loads. Now this isn't necessary for the XR-7, as Roger was very careful in designing his speakers.

That all being said the difference in available power where the rubber meets the road is very little. 1db more or less between a 7270 and a 2200. Remember most folks can only hear a difference of 3 db, which takes twice as much power. So really you should be looking for a MC352, but then your speaker can't handle that power continuously. But if you could maintain the discipline you have shown with your 2205 then the 352 would be a great improvement for you. 15 db more signal to noise and over 20 db less distortion.

Now there are other issues when buying an amp, and only listening can answer those for you. I have mixed 7270's and 2255's in commercial systems and the sound was indistinguishable to me. But I was comparing them has midrange amps from 600 to 8,000 hz. In homes using XR-7 I heard no difference. The 7300 which is another choose seemed to be a sweeter amp than the 2255 to me. The MC300 is another choice where definite improvement can be heard.
 
The XR-7 were an excellent speaker in their day and still have a loyal following. They were not the most revealing in the upper midrange or high frequencies though. This was caused by cabinet issues (cancellations caused by the door and top) as well as using cone tweeters. They therefore did not show off the improved dynamics in the upper ranges of the amps after the MC2205.

HOWEVER they love the added power of the 500 watt amps. The added dynamics and headroom gained with doubling the power brings the speaker to life even if you seldom see power guard. Find a 2500 or 2600 and you will be very happy.
 
c_dk said:
The XR-7 were an excellent speaker in their day and still have a loyal following. They were not the most revealing in the upper midrange or high frequencies though. This was caused by cabinet issues (cancellations caused by the door and top) as well as using cone tweeters. They therefore did not show off the improved dynamics in the upper ranges of the amps after the MC2205.

HOWEVER they love the added power of the 500 watt amps. The added dynamics and headroom gained with doubling the power brings the speaker to life even if you seldom see power guard. Find a 2500 or 2600 and you will be very happy.
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I know the tops come off the XR7's but they seem firmly fixed on mine, I never could see how you are supposed to get them off. I guess I should learn to remove the top piece and see if it sounds different. I'd love an MC600! but I'd probably have to go with the MC500 as I hardly ever see MC600 for sale and when I do they go for the top used price. Seems no one wants to sell theirs which makes me want one more cause there must be a reason. perhaps I'll get a good deal on a 500 or a 600. thanks for the detailed replies. I do like the XR7 it is my opinion that these speakers get slagged too much by people. Sure there are speakers that are better, but they are surprisingly good considering their rep.

What were the recomended Speaker a Mc dealer would have suggested for those getting an MC500?
 
I had to remove a top that got damaged once and you have to remove screws from the inside hidden by the crossover. When you look at all the speakers Mac developed after the 7s they paid much more attention to driver placement and reflective surfaces near the drivers (mainly the door/grille).

I did not sell as many 7s as as I did XRT19s and XRT20s when they came out. I had two customers driving 19s with pairs of MC2500s. I did have one customer that used a pair of MC2300s to drive his 7s for a short time.
 
jdwk said:
I know the tops come off the XR7's but they seem firmly fixed on mine, I never could see how you are supposed to get them off. I guess I should learn to remove the top piece and see if it sounds different. I'd love an MC600! but I'd probably have to go with the MC500 as I hardly ever see MC600 for sale and when I do they go for the top used price. Seems no one wants to sell theirs which makes me want one more cause there must be a reason. perhaps I'll get a good deal on a 500 or a 600. thanks for the detailed replies. I do like the XR7 it is my opinion that these speakers get slagged too much by people. Sure there are speakers that are better, but they are surprisingly good considering their rep.

What were the recomended Speaker a Mc dealer would have suggested for those getting an MC500?
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There was no MC600. The replacement was an MC602, which is a huge amp. To my ears the MC500 was the better sounding amp. I used Aerial and Audio Physic speakers with the MC500.
 
Get a Mc2300 and be done with it. On a bad day, it is probably doubling the watts of a 2205 (I can tell you, I have both), and the thing is a battle ax. Less money than a 2500 or half the money of a 2600 for sure (if you can find a 2600). A 2300 for brute force is an amp to be reckoned with, and I have been moving mine so much the 124 pounds seems light to me!
 
jdwk said:
I know the tops come off the XR7's but they seem firmly fixed on mine, I never could see how you are supposed to get them off.
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Get an MC-2600 and the tops will come off whenever you decide.

I guarantee it.

I've never tested a 2600 that put out less than 750w/channel at Power Guard.

-edit- the 7270 is a much better sounding amplifier than the 2205, I replaced my 2200 with a 2255, and sold countless 7270's in my day.
 
I own a 7270 driving a pair of Carver Ribbons, which are notoriously difficult to drive. The 7270 drives with no issues and with great authority. The sound is fantastic. It will definetly be a vast upgrade over the 2205.

Jimmy
 
MX117.MC7150 said:
There was no MC600. The replacement was an MC602, which is a huge amp. To my ears the MC500 was the better sounding amp. I used Aerial and Audio Physic speakers with the MC500.
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I actually meant MC2600 for some reason I leave off the 2 when typing. while we're on this amp discussion, I never went for the MC2300 because all the ones I see are cosmeticly hammered, I hear alot of people talk about the MC2600 being from the "Clarion" era. I thought I read that they didnt interfere with how Mc ran, so I wonder whats so wrong with the MC2600. I have also thought of just getting another 2205 and monoblock them cause that would be 400W, I am not sure if there would be disadvantages to doing that. I'd love to be able to get the current Amp, but thats not anywhere near what I could afford, and that would make me have to upgrade the c33 as well, and the XR7's. I love Mc, and I dont think I will ever want another brand, its just so far I have seen a big improvment in my one upgrade so I know that will only continue if I go up. I really should not have bought the 2105, not that it was bad, but the 2205 was better and same for the c28 Vs. the c33. I guess I want the same step up I got from going to my third set of Mc's that I got that I got from going from the first to the second. The sound is getting better, but the price seems to get MUCH higher quicker........:) the Mc sound is awesome I just need a little more of it. (:
 
Gregory said:
Much better? vast upgrade? now I'm depressed.


-Gregory
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well Gregory being from the "go vintage" roots I am slowly starting to realize......yes the Mcintoshes really do get much better the newer you go.....the older ones sound different than the newer ones but when CD's happened everything did change and the gear had to change with it. Sure the 2105 and 2205 are amazing amps especially for their time, it shows why Mc is Mc. I heard an MC402 running off a C2300 with totem mani 2's and while it sounded really good and very different, my old Mc rig still wasnt as far behind as you might think (yes I do realize Id have to try it in my listening room to be accurate) but the vintage holds is own pretty well considering. But the new stuff is really better.
 
jdwk said:
well Gregory being from the "go vintage" roots I am slowly starting to realize......yes the Mcintoshes really do get much better the newer you go.....the older ones sound different than the newer ones.. but the vintage holds is own pretty well considering. But the new stuff is really better.
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We had a discussion here in the last year or two where someone, or some company did an A-B comparison of the MC2205 and MC252, and the report said they were very close, with the MC252 sounding slightly better (will keep searching for that link.) Then someone asked "so what has changed in all these years?" Sure the newer amps have lower distortion, but I'm not ready to give up the 2205 yet. It's running better than it ever has, and probably will run great for many more years. So then what could be expected in moving up to the 7270? I saw the MC7270 at Audio Consultants in 1988 and heard it drive the new CS3.5s, but let's not get off track here.


-Gregory
 
Gregory said:
Then someone asked "so what has changed in all these years?" Sure the newer amps have lower distortion,
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The lower distortion numbers are always given as one of the main reasons why the new is always better sounding than the vintage. There are audible differences between old and new but I do not think that distortion plays any role, no matter how low the distortion the signal has to go through the speakers before you can hear the difference and this is where the speaker distortion overwhelms the overall system distortion.

Most speaker manufacturers will give you some numbers for the distortion but they always exclude the lowest octave because the numbers are not pretty.
My own take on the sound of vintage Mac amps is that they do sound real good with high efficiency speakers and certainly the ones that do not introduce difficult loads, if that is what you have you will be happier with the newer amps.

Vahe
 
vahe said:
The lower distortion numbers are always given as one of the main reasons why the new is always better sounding than the vintage. There are audible differences between old and new but I do not think that distortion plays any role, no matter how low the distortion the signal has to go through the speakers before you can hear the difference and this is where the speaker distortion overwhelms the overall system distortion. My own take on the sound of vintage Mac amps is that they do sound real good with high efficiency speakers and certainly the ones that do not introduce difficult loads, if that is what you have you will be happier with the newer amps.
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Sorry for getting a bit OT again but I must quote the following equipment comparison and refute some of the claims, or at least defend my amplifier a little. :thmbsp: The source URL can easily found with a Google search in necessary.

Shootout #7 - McIntosh MC 252 versus McIntosh MC 2205

I bought in very good shape a McIntosh MC 2205 from Audioclassica. Audioclassica is a specialist to refurbish amps and tuners from McIntosh. So the MC 2205 was in mint condition and also the sound surprised us, how good a 30 year old amp performed. The amp was produced between 1975 - 1979 and was the first McIntosh amp with power guard. The MC 2205 sounds very similar as the MC 252. Maybe a little warmer, but not so warm as for example the MC 2505. Bass was completely controlled and not so fuzzy like the MC 2505. Mid range and highs sounded very smooth. Like the MC 252, the MC 2205 sounded completely unstressed. In the end the MC 252 won, because it sounded a little bit more natural and detailed. But it was a close race. And we asked ourselves, what happened in amplifier technology in the last 30 years?!


-Gregory
 
Gregory said:
I bought in very good shape a McIntosh MC 2205 from Audioclassica. Audioclassica is a specialist to refurbish amps and tuners from McIntosh. So the MC 2205 was in mint condition and also the sound surprised us, how good a 30 year old amp performed. The amp was produced between 1975 - 1979 and was the first McIntosh amp with power guard. The MC 2205 sounds very similar as the MC 252.
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One more OT, and I do apologize.

I would like to know if this “very good shape 2205 from Audiclassics” was an original or was an upgraded/recapped unit. Does Audioclassics upgrade/recap these old units before selling or just test and confirm that they do perform within the specified limits.

Vahe
 
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