MC275 MkV - How does single-ended sound compared to balanced?

[Victor]

Hi Wolfcub,

Thank you for the detailed answer.My MVP871 is connected to C45 with XLR cables and the C45 to my power amp(MC402) also with XLR cable.Do I have a fully balanced.I've been told that only the Mc402 is fully balanced. In the user manuals of those gears is not mentioned if they are balanced or not.How could we know if our gears are fully balanced or not.
Thank u in advance

Harry

The C45 is not internally fully balanced. The balanced McIntosh preamps are: C100, C200, C500 and C1000.

As Wolfcub said, I would not worry too much about this. You could always go to your local dealer and borrow some RCA and XLR interconnects to see if you hear any difference in the sound.

By the way, I'm using XLR balanced cables with my C22 and MC75s, neither of which are internally balanced. I did a few comparisons and went with the balanced cables for their better build quality.

 

[harry33]

I connected my C45 to Mc402 with XLR cables.The MVP871_CD output is connected to C45_CD input with XLR, And to C45_CD2 with RCA. I made a test: when I'm switching with the remote-control between CD(XLR) and CD2(RCA) there is avery subtle difference in favour of RCA, but I couldn't say 100% that the RCA is better.My cables are very short.

Thank u guys to answer to my request.

Harry

 

[LewinskiH01]

FWIW, I've been digging this same issue in regards to my MC275 Mk IV, which compared to the Mk V also adds the volume pots in the signal path when driven from the RCAs. I came across a gentleman who drives his Mk IV single-ended with a Lamm LL2 and swears by that arrangement despite having tried some very serious preamp options with XLR connectors (has a Lamm L2 on his main system). He says he would never go back to XLR with the 275...intriguing.:yes:

BTW, some preamp options that I believe meet your weight constraint and are very well regarded: Jeff Rowland Capri (solid state; RCA+XLR), Lamm LL2 (tube; RCA), Audio Valve Eklipse (tube, RCA), Klyne 6 & 7. Not sure if you need remote, only one volume pot, etc, though.

Let us know how you move forward and how it works for you. As mentioned, I'm on the same boat:thmbsp:

Good luck.
Horacio

 

[whoaru99]

....
These additional two stages of conversion may detrimental to sound quality if not engineered correctly and there is no common-mode noise rejection in the unbalanced portion of the circuit....

Yes, there is the possibility of this, but there is also the possibility of some issues with the differential circuitry inside a fully balanced component as well. Given that there is essentially a mirror image circuit for each side of the balanced signal, it's a more complex endeavor to execute properly and that has some inherent risks too.

 

[minimus]

Well, I pulled the trigger on an Aesthetix Calypso preamp, which has both balanced and single ended connections for each input. The preamp has gotten some great reviews and owners are generally impressed with it. My only concern is that it can supposedly be noisy, especially if tubes aren't perfectly matched. I bought it used at a decent price and if it doesn't work out I will sell it (hopefully for a minimal loss, but you never know in these hard economic times.) I will post impressions using both single-ended and balanced IC's once I get it. However, my balanced IC's (Gabriel Gold Revelation MK2) are better quality than my single-ened IC's (Blue Circle), so that may affect results.

 

[mosttoysrsk]

I am auditioning the PWD and PWT currently in my system which consists of c2200 preamp, mc275IV amp, Martin Logan CLS speakers, ML Descent sub.
MIT interconnects and speaker wire.

I initially connected the PWD directly to the MC275 single ended and then with balanced cables. Clean sound but I found it to be a bit polite with RCA's and a bit more dynamic with the balanced cables but nothing to get jazzed about.

I then connected the PWD to the c2200 via single ended cable. It was a very different beast. I found it to be much more dynamic, tight bass, huge wide sound stage with depth and clarity that increased and sounded better as the volume increased. No hardness what so ever.

This is the best DAC I have heard in my system. Previously had a Krell KPS 20i cd player. Side by side the PS PWD walks all over the Krell, the PS PWD is easily distinguished in my system by many "guests".

I much prefer the sound of the PS PWD through a preamp vs direct connect to the MC275, as did others that listened to my system. I haven't listened to the PS PWD via balanced cable to my c2200 yet. I know the c2200 is not fully balanced so it may not be that big of a difference. Just my two cents.

I am awaiting the bridge card that should be out in April, allowing the PWD to interface streaming files from a NAS server.

 

[minimus]

I am auditioning the PWD and PWT currently in my system which consists of c2200 preamp, mc275IV amp, Martin Logan CLS speakers, ML Descent sub.
MIT interconnects and speaker wire.

I initially connected the PWD directly to the MC275 single ended and then with balanced cables. Clean sound but I found it to be a bit polite with RCA's and a bit more dynamic with the balanced cables but nothing to get jazzed about.

I then connected the PWD to the c2200 via single ended cable. It was a very different beast. I found it to be much more dynamic, tight bass, huge wide sound stage with depth and clarity that increased and sounded better as the volume increased. No hardness what so ever.

This is the best DAC I have heard in my system. Previously had a Krell KPS 20i cd player. Side by side the PS PWD walks all over the Krell, the PS PWD is easily distinguished in my system by many "guests".

I much prefer the sound of the PS PWD through a preamp vs direct connect to the MC275, as did others that listened to my system. I haven't listened to the PS PWD via balanced cable to my c2200 yet. I know the c2200 is not fully balanced so it may not be that big of a difference. Just my two cents.

I am awaiting the bridge card that should be out in April, allowing the PWD to interface streaming files from a NAS server.

I agree that the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC and Transport both are phenomenally good as digital sources. And I also agree that they sound better with a separate preamp and not amp direct. I am very happy with the Aesthetix Calypso preamp I bought.

I have experimented with various cables and ultimately settled on using balanced cables between both the PW DAC and Aesthetix and the Aesthetix and MC 275. Single ended has some sonic positives, most notably better PRAT and decay, but the bass quality sounds uncontrolled and the sound signature became overly bright and tipped up. I suspect this has more to do with the Aesthetix Calypso than the MC275. But after lots of experimentation today, I am really happy with my setup using a balanced setup. I guess the one advantage is not having to worry about buying a NOS tube for the V1 position in the MC275.

 

[gmartan]

Hi Harry, I am sorry but I don't know the answer, maybe someone with a better knowledge of the particular McIntosh gear knows the answer ?

I wouldn't get too hung up over whether something is 'fully' balanced or not so long as it is well-designed. Poorly designed kit trying to jump on the 'balanced' bandwagon is what you have to be more wary of when you would probably get a better sound using the RCA output than a poorly implemented balanced output.

Too true. I found the C2300 driving an MC402 more transparent when using single ended compared to balanced. Subbing in a different amp, the reverse was true.