MC60 vs MC225

[audiomaniac]

I was thinking about looking for some MC60s to go with my JBL166 speakers. I'm familiar with the sound of the MC225 and was wondering how the MC60s compare. I would imagine the bass would be better, but what about the midrange? Would I lose that magic sound? Can anybody compare and contrast the two?

 

[audiomaniac]

It's surprising that there are no opinions on this. I guess it's pretty to rare to compare these classics side by side. After trying some of the newer McIntosh stuff, I always come back to their vintage gear.

 

[62caddy]

FWIW AM,

I've been doing A/B comparisons between two McIntosh amps in my vintage system. The amplifiers are an MC 240 and MC 2505.

As far as I'm concerned, the only way to effectively compare any two devices is via an instantaneous real time switching device. I installed one such device - chiefly to spare use of the tube amp, particularly during summer months when the extra heat of the MC 240 would not be wanted and as I had the extra MC 2505, the cost was relatively small for the added flexibility. The ability to A/B the two amplifiers was an incidental benefit.

After experimenting a couple weeks now, I can declare - in all honesty and sincerity - that I have yet to discern between the two amplifiers and I seriously doubt that anyone else would be able to do so.

Although I've never heard the MC 225 or MC 60, all can say, and for whatever it might be worth, that I sincerely doubt you will be able to hear much difference between the two amps, if at all - assuming both are working up to spec. I bought a McIntosh tube amplifier for the simple reason that I wanted a McIntosh tube amplifier; I don't regret it a bit. It's a classic device that gives as much enjoyment to me for its aesthetic beauty as it does for its sonics.

Cheers, Eric

 

[audiomaniac]

That's a great idea about having a switch. I also agree about the heat from tube amps especially in the summer! I agree that there is something special about tubes, especially in a Mac. It's like music at its purist form. Fun stuff! Thanks for the info.

 

[beans]

I've never listened to either but read differing opinions on the MC60. It's an older design, introduced in 1955 and was sold for 6 or 7 years. It was replaced in their lineup by the MC75 in 1961. Some love the MC60; others... not so much. But I have read that they're very collectible and that means big bucks for a pair that are in good condition, relative to their sound quality. the 75 & 275 were considered big improvements by most.

 

[beans]

Out of curiosity I checked out an MC60 (one) on ebay with a starting bid of $1,1995. No bids but still 4 days left. The chrome is pitted but that's par for the course on something so old. As for an MC225, I wouldn't pay big bucks for 25 WPC... but then from what I know about Mc specs, it probably puts out more than that. The implication is that you are debating selling off your 225 and replacing it vs. standing pat. Correct?

 

[62caddy]

Some swear by the MC 30 & MC 60 for their tube rectifiers - which I believe is peculiar to only those two models in the classic McIntosh tube range.

A friend of mine actually said he preferred his MC 240 to both his 60s & 30s - so go figure.

Again, it's virtually impossible to compare one amp to another unless the comparison is made instantaneously.

The fact that the opinions on each of these amplifiers is relatively evenly divided strongly suggests - to me at any rate - the differences are very minute.

 

[Pio1980]

From what I've read there is a "family" sound character to all Mac unity coupled tube amps, with individual sub-characteristics between the various model versions. Then you have tube-rolling voicing trimming and the choice of what replacement signal capacitors go where and why. Many folk think the '225 the best sounding of the combined-twin tube amps but they will run out of peak power rather early on many common speaker systems compared to their balls-ier sibs, so that is also an obvious consideration. Here are some pertinent technical comments on the '225;
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=7477049&postcount=8
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=7477291&postcount=9

Tho' I have one MC50 doorstop and am working on someone's 240 and twin-75s I haven't lived with any one of them, solid-state included, in order to form my own opinion. To be perfectly open and clear my present amps of choice (by default) are Iverson Eagle 2, and Dave Belles designed OCM Soloist 200 FET amp, with a couple Adcom GFA-535s as loaners/back-ups. These are good sounding amps but I cannot personally compare their performance/ sound to any Mac power amp.
BTW, Holy Crap! I see that I've passed 12,000 postings without noticing, I really need to get a life.

 

[goldear]

Its been a very long times since I heard an MC60. But the impression that I remember from that time was that its sound reminded me alot of a stock Dyna Stereo 70. Now some people love the stereo 70, but I don't. To me the Stereo 70 always sounded rolled-off lacked-detail, and only had an OK midrange (nothing to get excited over), and didn't image at all. Hopefully MC60s are capable of sounding much better than I remember, and that I simply heard it on a system which was not a good combination for that amp. But I would not personally be inclined to buy an MC60 unless I got a killer deal on one, or heard it on a system which proved my initial impressions to be totally wrong.

I own a 225 and have tried a modern 275 inside of my system. To me these two amps have a lot in common sonically, and are both quite neutral overall in character, and have very good detail. However I think that the 225 has just a smidgen more of that midrange tube magic than did the 275.

 

[audiomaniac]

My MC225 is long gone, unfortunately. I had it paired with an MX110 and the two together were magic. Unfortunately, I got tired of having to get them serviced all the time and went down the road of more modern tube gear, which left me totally unsatisfied. Now I'm back in the Mac camp with a MA6200 in an office system. But I miss the tubes and have been looking around for another Mac tube amp. Since I'm so familiar with the the MC225, I figured that was a good place to start for comparisons. It had great midrange, but it was shy on bass. I would want something with more low end.

Out of curiosity I checked out an MC60 (one) on ebay with a starting bid of $1,1995. No bids but still 4 days left. The chrome is pitted but that's par for the course on something so old. As for an MC225, I wouldn't pay big bucks for 25 WPC... but then from what I know about Mc specs, it probably puts out more than that. The implication is that you are debating selling off your 225 and replacing it vs. standing pat. Correct?

 

[beans]

I listen to prog rock quite a bit so I wanted my system to be capable of deep, powerful bass. My solution was to add a good powered sub - Paradigm PW-2200, and I still use it. It handles everything below 60 Hz, and that takes a big load off the main amp. I bring this up because I think it would pair up well with the MC225 and make you happy with the bass. Since I don't have a really big listening room, the Paradigm provides thunderous bass. Its amplifier is class D with 250 watts (they later came out with a 500 watt version). Its active crossover has an adjustable crossover point (although it sends everything above 60 Hz to the main amp no matter where it's dialed in) and a phase adjustment to allow you to keep it in phase with your mains depending on its placement.

 

[audiomaniac]

FWIW, I've gone down the road of pairing a sub with the MC225. I don't have a particularly big room and wasn't looking for subterranean bass. It could have easily been my ignorance or lack of patience, but I could never get it to sound natural. Thanks

I listen to prog rock quite a bit so I wanted my system to be capable of deep, powerful bass. My solution was to add a good powered sub - Paradigm PW-2200, and I still use it. It handles everything below 60 Hz, and that takes a big load off the main amp. I bring this up because I think it would pair up well with the MC225 and make you happy with the bass. Since I don't have a really big listening room, the Paradigm provides thunderous bass. Its amplifier is class D with 250 watts (they later came out with a 500 watt version).

 

[beans]

FWIW, I've gone down the road of pairing a sub with the MC225. I don't have a particularly big room and wasn't looking for subterranean bass. It could have easily been my ignorance or lack of patience, but I could never get it to sound natural. Thanks

I understand. My post was FWIW too. And I wasn't necessarily recommending Paradigm. There are plenty of newer options that may be better. I was using mine as an example of the features to look for.

 

[audiomaniac]

Of course, I totally understand and appreciate your suggestions. Thanks Beans!

I understand. My post was FWIW too. And I wasn't necessarily recommending Paradigm. There are plenty of newer options that may be better. I was using mine as an example of the features to look for.

 

[Thundermud]

My MC 60's got some serious balls and the tube rectifier is a nice addition. Good luck with your decision!

 

[cduarte]

FWIW, I've gone down the road of pairing a sub with the MC225. I don't have a particularly big room and wasn't looking for subterranean bass. It could have easily been my ignorance or lack of patience, but I could never get it to sound natural. Thanks

I'm running a mc225 with klipsch cornwalls, there's absolutely no need for a sub once I changed preamps from the jolida to the freshly mx110.

 

[efhjr]

I alternate between a pair of MC30s and an MC2505; both were refurbed by Terry. Speakers are tweaked '77 Cornwalls.

While I do love the MC2505's sound, I'm always amazed when I power up the MC30s after a few weeks or months listening to the MC2505. The midrange and sheer musicality of the the MC30s are hard to beat.

 

[twiiii]

I owned MC 60's and heard quite a few MC225 in the early years at the hi fi shop. Of course they were running very efficient speakers. The Mc 60's I owned ran Altec Carmels for a brief while and Altec Coronado s. Later on one ran a Bozak 302 between two Bozak Symphonies powered by 240's in Mono and then 275's bi-amped while waiting for my Grands. The MC 60's were warmer than the 240's and more laid back than the 275's. I always thought 225's had a little more speed than MC-60's and 275's. But as Altecs and Bozaks began to fall off at 12 khz, and Klipsch were flat to 18,000 hz it may have been the speakers. I heard JBL with ring radiators run by MC 60 and enjoyed the sound much better than SS stuff. That ring radiator could be horrid. MC225 with Cornwalls was a little shy, in larger rooms, but in small rooms where the listening distance was less than 12 feet they did an outstanding job. Remember Paul was to have said all the world needs in a great 10 watt amp. Well the 225 was a great 35 watt amp and powered early corner horns with great sound. Our sales manager used a 225 while waiting for a 275 to power his Symphonies and I thought the sound in his smallish apartment was better than his 240. He was using boot leg live tapes played on his F4460 Ampex and the sound was fantastic. It was so good that prompted me to buy the one of the last F44's made. I owned a Ma 230 at one time, which was a 225 and a C-24 put together, and they drove my Stephens speakers very realistically. A friend of mine still has a C-11 driving a pair of MC 60's driving a pair of Altec 619's. And the sound is fantastic with the 619 s being flat from 32 to 19,000 hz. The sound is what defines the "tube"!

 

[onemug]

While I do love the MC2505's sound, I'm always amazed when I power up the MC30s after a few weeks or months listening to the MC2505. The midrange and sheer musicality of the the MC30s are hard to beat.

I've had that experience when evaluating equipment. I'll try/buy a new piece, listen to it for at least a week then, when the original back goes back in, have the differences become clearer. It's a real good reason to, if you can, NOT get rid of the old too soon.