Methods to determine sub placement?

[TROUBAUDIOR]

I did a search but nothing readily popped up.

I recently dug out a sub to hook up to my system. I initially hooked it up just to make sure it was still working, and it is. So, now, I'd like to find the best place for it.

I've only ever owned one sub in the past. The method I used for it was to place the sub in my sweet spot and crawl around the room listening for best sound. Where I found myself is where the sub went. Seemed to work well.

Any other methods or suggestions?

The sub will be used in a 2-channel music only system in a in a dedicated 12x12x8 room with only the listening chair and the system. My preference for low frequencies is that I only want to hear them when necessary and then, I like my bass taut and fast.

Thanks.
Troubaudior

 

[Lavane]

Without DSP and test mic's, the "sub crawl" can get you close. Place the sub in your listening position, move the chair or couch if possible, or right in front of it. Then crawl around on the floor to find the spot it sounds best. Then place the sub in that spot. If not possible, the next best spot, etc. For music you don't want to turn it up too far. You want it to mesh as seamlessly as possible with your Mains. I have mine setup to where you don't notice it's on unless it's turned off. Set the frequency of the sub to a little above where your mains roll off and adjust from there.

 

[Grenadeslio]

I did a search but nothing readily popped up.

I recently dug out a sub to hook up to my system. I initially hooked it up just to make sure it was still working, and it is. So, now, I'd like to find the best place for it.

I've only ever owned one sub in the past. The method I used for it was to place the sub in my sweet spot and crawl around the room listening for best sound. Where I found myself is where the sub went. Seemed to work well.

Any other methods or suggestions?

The sub will be used in a 2-channel music only system in a in a dedicated 12x12x8 room with only the listening chair and the system. My preference for low frequencies is that I only want to hear them when necessary and then, I like my bass taut and fast.

Thanks.
Troubaudior

the perfectly square rm is problematic, wall treatments, bass traps, etc are your friends. I've found all sorts of room friendly decor can help, even some strategically placed fake plants.



as you can see there are two around and behind the left speaker, the problem child having a corner behind it.

 

[WaynerN]

Start in the corner and start working it out from either wall playing some nice bass infused music. When you hit the spot, it will resonate the room nodes and become mostly omni-directional if you have the XO point really low. My subs have high level inputs that I use to blend in with the mains. This lets the mains run full bandwidth and then its just a matter of using the sub to fill in where the mains can't go. If the mains go as low as the sub, there is no reason to have a sub. Also, just moving the sub's position a few inches can have some interesting results. Good luck.

 

[Lavane]

Start in the corner and start working it out from either wall playing some nice bass infused music. When you hit the spot, it will resonate the room nodes and become mostly omni-directional if you have the XO point really low. My subs have high level inputs that I use to blend in with the mains. This lets the mains run full bandwidth and then its just a matter of using the sub to fill in where the mains can't go. If the mains go as low as the sub, there is no reason to have a sub. Also, just moving the sub's position a few inches can have some interesting results. Good luck.

I ran into this with the speakers I'm using now. They go low enough that my sub isn't needed. I hooked it up to my second pair of speakers I have booked up to a small 17wpc tube amp.

 

[TROUBAUDIOR]

Without DSP and test mic's, the "sub crawl" can get you close. Place the sub in your listening position, move the chair or couch if possible, or right in front of it. Then crawl around on the floor to find the spot it sounds best. Then place the sub in that spot. If not possible, the next best spot, etc. For music you don't want to turn it up too far. You want it to mesh as seamlessly as possible with your Mains. I have mine setup to where you don't notice it's on unless it's turned off. Set the frequency of the sub to a little above where your mains roll off and adjust from there.

Thanks for posting, @Lavane . The sub crawl is what I was planning to do. But now I wonder if there's a phone app to help with the process? Hmmm.

 

[TROUBAUDIOR]

the perfectly square rm is problematic, wall treatments, bass traps, etc are your friends. I've found all sorts of room friendly decor can help, even some strategically placed fake plants.

View attachment 2280681

as you can see there are two around and behind the left speaker, the problem child having a corner behind it.

I hope you live out in the country!

Do my eyes deceive me or do I spot two large subs acting as speaker stands for even larger horn-loaded behemoths! Is that right? What the hey are you using to drive all that?

I am definitely going to implement some wall treatments and bass traps when I'm finally done placing my speakers and sub for sure. I know I don't want my sub in a corner!

Do you have an treatments behind the listening spot?

Thank you for responding!

 

[TROUBAUDIOR]

Start in the corner and start working it out from either wall playing some nice bass infused music. When you hit the spot, it will resonate the room nodes and become mostly omni-directional if you have the XO point really low. My subs have high level inputs that I use to blend in with the mains. This lets the mains run full bandwidth and then its just a matter of using the sub to fill in where the mains can't go. If the mains go as low as the sub, there is no reason to have a sub. Also, just moving the sub's position a few inches can have some interesting results. Good luck.

Thank you for posting @WaynerN ! My P5s roll off at 55Hz so that is where I have the XO set. I only want bass when it's supposed to be there, so I keep the sub's output level pretty low, depending on the source material.

 

[TROUBAUDIOR]

I ran into this with the speakers I'm using now. They go low enough that my sub isn't needed. I hooked it up to my second pair of speakers I have booked up to a small 17wpc tube amp.

I never quite understood the need for sub on a music-system if the mains are full-range speakers that go down to 30Hz or lower. Decades ago on a different online audio board, I had a conversation with a member whose mains were full-range ESLs and he had two 15-inch Velodynes also. I remember asking him why on earth he had, not one but two, subs? His response? "Because I can."

 

[Grenadeslio]

I hope you live out in the country!

Do my eyes deceive me or do I spot two large subs acting as speaker stands for even larger horn-loaded behemoths! Is that right? What the hey are you using to drive all that?

I am definitely going to implement some wall treatments and bass traps when I'm finally done placing my speakers and sub for sure. I know I don't want my sub in a corner!

Do you have an treatments behind the listening spot?

Thank you for responding!

The speakers are bi-amped with the Dynacos sitting on top, this setup was at the old digs, things have changed a bit.

there were two windows directly behind the listening position, this can be an issue. The windows had vertical blinds, I would turn the blinds about 1/2 way open, this would trap any reflections off the glass, worked beautifully.

The little lady was visiting a friend one afternoon, "The Rock" had just arrived, I needed to test it out before giving feedback on the purchase. As I had two pair of Heresys, and more than enough amplifiers, I decided to have a little fun heh heh heh.



This picture predates the setup pictured earlier, the Carver gear was still in the living rm with the AR XA as the deck.

as mentioned those pics were at the old digs, things have changed considerably, this was the setup in the new digs, much of the same equipment with different amplification and speakers.


that has again changed, different preamp with a cassette in place of the tuna




with the other gear now the new bedroom setup


you might be wondering where the subs went


The media rm being so small needed three 12" subs lol. There are actually two complete systems in there, one dedicated 2-channel, the other surround sound for movie watching. Not pictured are all the Viking memorabilia tapestries etc hanging on the walls to mitigate wall reflections. There's a window just to the left with miniblinds I again open 1/2 way to help with reflections on that side.

I highly recommend the two subs being used as stands in many of the pictures. Dayton Audio Sub 1200's from Parts Express connected in stereo, at around $150 I say take two and call me in the morning.

The sub in the middle is kind of rare and cost 2G back in 1991, also highly recommended but hard to find and not around $150 lol

EDIT: I have to mention, I have a very understanding lady, and she's beautiful too, thank you Renee.


I'm a lucky man

 

[TROUBAUDIOR]

Holy crap @Grenadeslio , I don't know where to begin! LOL!

First, let me say that the media room is my favorite. It just screams FUN! LOL.

Secondly, congrats on finding an "understanding SO. Those are rare and far and few between. I speak from experience. LOL.

Tape deck, too! Nice! My only tape deck was an entry-level Nak that served me very well for nearly a decade. When I first saw the Dragon do it's little "flip" for "true" auto-reverse, I knew I had to own a Nak. LOL.

I'm actually planning to upgrade my Sub and was looking at the DA subs, although, I'm not sure they would give me anything better than the Sony SW-100 I have now. It's not the tightest of bass and I like my bass tight and fast. I'm also a firm believe of bigger is better. I won't buy a sub less than 12 inches, preferably 15. My Sony is 12.

I also have to say that I LOVE how your system in pic #4 works with the decor! So so cool!!

Thank you for sharing!

T

 

[Grenadeslio]

Holy crap @Grenadeslio , I don't know where to begin! LOL!

First, let me say that the media room is my favorite. It just screams FUN! LOL.

Secondly, congrats on finding an "understanding SO. Those are rare and far and few between. I speak from experience. LOL.

Tape deck, too! Nice! My only tape deck was an entry-level Nak that served me very well for nearly a decade. When I first saw the Dragon do it's little "flip" for "true" auto-reverse, I knew I had to own a Nak. LOL.

I'm actually planning to upgrade my Sub and was looking at the DA subs, although, I'm not sure they would give me anything better than the Sony SW-100 I have now. It's not the tightest of bass and I like my bass tight and fast. I'm also a firm believe of bigger is better. I won't buy a sub less than 12 inches, preferably 15. My Sony is 12.

I also have to say that I LOVE how your system in pic #4 works with the decor! So so cool!!

Thank you for sharing!

T

not knowing your budget, the DA subs are my budget recommendation, if more then my first choice would be the Rythmik Audio F12SE.

Thanks for your comments on the gear, it's a fun hobby. About the cassette, I have several with my favorite being the Nakamichi MR1, the recently purchased Teac C-3RX (Tascom 122B consumer version) is giving it some competition though.

 

[AlphaEcho35]

I use the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033S-II to control my Rythmik E15 sub. You place your sub where you want it and run the DSPeaker's analysis with the little included microphone. Made a world of difference in my system. Especially usefull if your placement options are limited (as in my case.) As someone else said, you don't really notice hear the sub unless you turn it off and realize what you are now missing.
Its not a cheap solution at around $400, but definitely an easy one.

 

[TROUBAUDIOR]

I use the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033S-II to control my Rythmik E15 sub. You place your sub where you want it and run the DSPeaker's analysis with the little included microphone. Made a world of difference in my system. Especially usefull if your placement options are limited (as in my case.) As someone else said, you don't really notice hear the sub unless you turn it off and realize what you are now missing.
Its not a cheap solution at around $400, but definitely an easy one.

Hmmm... so the DSPeaker device is left on and in-line with the rest of your system? I presume the sub plugs into it and then it to the amp/receiver? Do your mains still connect directly to the amp?

May have to check it out, although $400 for a "nice-to-have" would flare up my Audiophilia Nervosa and send me off the edge again. LOL (if you enjoy a long-ass, verbose buy humorous read...check out my intro in introductions).

Thank you for posting, @AlphaEcho35 !

 

[TROUBAUDIOR]

not knowing your budget, the DA subs are my budget recommendation, if more then my first choice would be the Rythmik Audio F12SE.

Thanks for your comments on the gear, it's a fun hobby. About the cassette, I have several with my favorite being the Nakamichi MR1, the recently purchased Teac C-3RX (Tascom 122B consumer version) is giving it some competition though.

My budget is tight. Right now, I've intentionally set it at $1500US so that I don't go crazy. I have come full circle with this hobby, @Grenadeslio and it nearly broke me emotionally and financially. So I'm wading back in to the water carefully now (read my long-ass intro in introductions for the full story). My current system (see my signature) has some shortcomings that I want to address before upgrading the sub. That said, since I have been out of the game for a while, I've not heard of RA. So you and Alpha have me curious. Checked out their site. They do seem to have some affordable subs, like the L12. And 14 inches to boot! Nice!

 

[AlphaEcho35]

Hmmm... so the DSPeaker device is left on and in-line with the rest of your system? I presume the sub plugs into it and then it to the amp/receiver? Do your mains still connect directly to the amp?

May have to check it out, although $400 for a "nice-to-have" would flare up my Audiophilia Nervosa and send me off the edge again. LOL (if you enjoy a long-ass, verbose buy humorous read...check out my intro in introductions).

Thank you for posting, @AlphaEcho35 !

Actually, I have the DSPeaker and the REL HT-Air Wireless both hooked up to a unbalanced output on my Schiit Freya+ preamp - that way, no matter what output configuration I have, the subwoofer system is independent. The DSPeaker/HT Air combo gives me great freedom to place the subwoofer wherever I want and not to have to worry about cabling as well (except for power, of course.)

 

[Grenadeslio]

My budget is tight. Right now, I've intentionally set it at $1500US so that I don't go crazy. I have come full circle with this hobby, @Grenadeslio and it nearly broke me emotionally and financially. So I'm wading back in to the water carefully now (read my long-ass intro in introductions for the full story). My current system (see my signature) has some shortcomings that I want to address before upgrading the sub. That said, since I have been out of the game for a while, I've not heard of RA. So you and Alpha have me curious. Checked out their site. They do seem to have some affordable subs, like the L12. And 14 inches to boot! Nice!

I had a 40yr collection that began when a teen in the 70's, all sold when my bride of 32yrs passed in 2012. Only items kept were the Pioneer SX1010 inherited from her father, the AR XA, and Infinity Modulus mains to have music while i waited to meet her.

Lost 62lbs, didnt die so got a job, the equipment pictured are all recent purchases except the Infinitys on the stands in the media rm.

Renee saved my life, and she's sitting beside me right now having coffee listening to Santana "Welcome" on cassette with the Teac.

I recorded it earlier this morning on the Nak off vinyl on the Well Tempered Lab Turntable.

I'm a lucky man.

 

[TROUBAUDIOR]

I had a 40yr collection that began when a teen in the 70's, all sold when my bride of 32yrs passed in 2012. Only items kept were the Pioneer SX1010 inherited from her father, the AR XA, and Infinity Modulus mains to have music while i waited to meet her.

Lost 62lbs, didnt die so got a job, the equipment pictured are all recent purchases except the Infinitys on the stands in the media rm.

Renee saved my life, and she's sitting beside me right now having coffee listening to Santana "Welcome" on cassette with the Teac.

I recorded it earlier this morning on the Nak off vinyl on the Well Tempered Lab Turntable.

I'm a lucky man.

You sure are!

Love this thread!

T

 

[TROUBAUDIOR]

Actually, I have the DSPeaker and the REL HT-Air Wireless both hooked up to a unbalanced output on my Schiit Freya+ preamp - that way, no matter what output configuration I have, the subwoofer system is independent. The DSPeaker/HT Air combo gives me great freedom to place the subwoofer wherever I want and not to have to worry about cabling as well (except for power, of course.)

View attachment 2281550

Okay, so...question. Since getting back in the game, I've noticed that wireless/bluetooth has become prevalent in mid-to-high end audio. What are your thoughts on wireless vs wired? Do you ever notice a difference?

My amp and DAC both have wireless BT and I've not tried it yet. Idunno why. I should.

 

[JoeESP9]

If you have the capability why haven't you tried BT? If you're seeking permission, you have mine.