Mid level receiver recommendation for vinyl

M

_MdS_

Member
Hey all!

Setting up my hifi after a long hiatus brought on by divorce and relocation, haha. My setup is pretty humble: Pioneer PL-500 turntable, Wharfdale Diamond 122s, NAD 315bee, and an ART DJii pre phono preamp. I actually like how this setup sounds for the most part, but I've got a nice little spot in the living room for it all and am kinda hot to get a rad old school receiver just cause I'm a vintage nerd (I'm a pro musician/producer/engineer). I'll listen mostly to vinyl, maybe a bit of radio, and some *gasp* Tidal.

Soooo...my budget isn't huge and prices on this stuff have gone bananas (good for you guys who've been doing this a long time!). I've been eyeing the usual suspects, I imagine: Marantz 2220/2230, Sansui G stuff, Pioneer 737, 650, etc. Open to Kenwood, Sherwood, or anything else rad. I live in Los Angeles and my house is about the size of a grocery cart so I dont need TONS of volume. Just want good sound at medium-low volumes. Wharfs sensitivity is like 86db.

Been researching a lot but don't see a TON of discussion about the relative quality of phono preamps. Obviously I wanna ditch the ART and am hoping for an improvement. Does this vary much from brand to brand, or are they all pretty much the same?

Aesthetically I lean a bit into the blue era stuff (2230, 737) but any 70s silver face will do. :-) Hate to admit it, but a big part of this is just my desire for an awesome looking stereo, haha.

For reference, my studio rig is a pair of ATCs with a Jim Williams modded Adcom amp with subs, so I've got that kinda vibe covered. Now I want an ENJOYABLE listening experience, haha. Don't get me wrong, it sounds amazing, but its very clinical. I'd like this rig to be more of the warm, smooth, old school vibe. I'd probably like a tube amp, but thats likely not gonna happen at this point.

Thanks all! Hope I've adequately followed forum decorum! :-)

Mike
 
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I swear by Harman Kardon's HK 330c. Punches WAY above its 20 watts. Nice and warm yet detailed. Excellent phono stage. Two speaker systems. Mono switch.

(photo: hifi-wiki)
HarmanKardon_330C.JPG
 
You have mentioned the brands that have the biggest following by folks that don't know a lot of brands...this means much higher prices than the similar models from others. Pio/Mar/Sui are all spendy when Onkyo, Kenwood, Sherwood, Harman Kardon and a hundred other brands can be as good or better for way less money.

For a grocery cart and 86dB speakers, I'd think 40 watts per channel will be more than enough so you can look at something like the KR-5400 with whatever power Kenwood says it has.

Take a look at hifiengine and see all the brands listed in the Library and then pick say Kenwood and look at all the Stereo Receivers or look at their Database and browse through the receivers just to learn a bit more.

But it really boils down to what is available in your price range. The engine can help you learn about the units you see on CL or where ever you look to find a unit.

The HK 430 or 730 would be excellent, they sound good.
 
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Blue Shadow said:
You have mentioned the brands that have the biggest following by folks that don't know a lot of brands...this means much higher prices than the similar models from others. Pio/Mar/Sui are all spendy when Onkyo, Kenwood, Sherwood, Harman Kardon and a hundred other brands can be as good or better for way less money.

For a grocery cart and 86dB speakers, I'd think 40 watts per channel will be more than enough so you can look at something like the KD-5400 with whatever power Kenwood says it has.

Take a look at hifiengine and see all the brands listed in the Library and then pick say Kenwood and look at all the Stereo Receivers or look at their Database and browse through the receivers just to learn a bit more.

But it really boils down to what is available in your price range. The engine can help you learn about that units you see on CL or where ever you look to find a unit.

The HK 430 or 730 would be excellent, they sound good.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Are there any brands that stand out as particularly good or particularly bad on the phono front? It seems the general consensus is that all these mid 70s Japanese brands made pretty solid stuff. Would you agree? On one hand seems like I can't go wrong as long as its got a decent reputation, but on the other hand I want the best thing I can get, haha. Of course whats best for ME might take a few tries, but I'm willing to take some swings.
 
There is variability of quality but in general most of the receivers and amps sold in the hi-fi stores of the day are pretty good. The later in the 70s you go the cleaner they sound as the use of transistors was becoming well understood and the spec wars were in full combat. Earlier 70s gear had a more tube like sound with higher distortion because folks were making gear to replace tube gear and were learning how to lower distortion numbers. The stuff doesn't sound bad because of that and many like the blue light Pioneers better than the silver ones from later years.

I haven't heard a comment about a bad sounding phono stage. Some of this age might need new caps and we usually change the small ones for film caps of better performance.

You want the best, Luxman R-1050. Good substitute, folks like the Pioneer SX-737. But the Onkyo TX-2500 II is very capable as are the rest in that line. I don't receiver, much, I have an R-1050 and its replacement the R-3055. I've sold both SX-737s but one to a friend because he wanted it so much and they were easy to come by. Just too many to chose from is the reason I say buy what shows up at the proper price in your area. If it is a good price, contact the seller before you post about it and don't provide the contact info, vultures will swoop in and try to grab your catch.

If you find a unit that is recapped and ready to go it will be better than one that has never been serviced. There are some that like the original units, just using cleaner on the scratchy knobs and such and enjoy them as is. But there is a larger group that think the sound quality is better on a refreshed unit.

Homework:
all of these are Popularity Contests. Folks want to think that what they have is best so they post their particular unit(s). Some threads have almost every device in the category mentioned at least once and some folks post their amps in a receiver poll but you can get an idea of what some of these units look like and learn why just some bloke on ak likes it. I made a list in one of the threads maybe page 10 or so and over 90 units had already been mentioned. So it is obvious that folks just want their unit on the list and they love it. Not that they have compared it to more than one or two other units.

Call back when you need to come up for air with any questions.

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/your-favorite-low-power-70s-receiver.867948/

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...orite-middle-range-receivers-int-amps.881740/

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...te-small-receiver-of-all-time-and-why.652879/

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/your-favorite-low-power-receivers.572185/

This one is for the big receivers, boys like power.
https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/whats-the-best-receiver-you-ever-heard.302833/
 
Last edited:
_MdS_ said:
Hey all!

Setting up my hifi after a long hiatus brought on by divorce and relocation, haha. My setup is pretty humble: Pioneer PL-500 turntable, Wharfdale Diamond 122s, NAD 315bee, and an ART DJii pre phono preamp. I actually like how this setup sounds for the most part, but I've got a nice little spot in the living room for it all and am kinda hot to get a rad old school receiver just cause I'm a vintage nerd (I'm a pro musician/producer/engineer). I'll listen mostly to vinyl, maybe a bit of radio, and some *gasp* Tidal.

Soooo...my budget isn't huge and prices on this stuff have gone bananas (good for you guys who've been doing this a long time!). I've been eyeing the usual suspects, I imagine: Marantz 2220/2230, Sansui G stuff, Pioneer 737, 650, etc. Open to Kenwood, Sherwood, or anything else rad. I live in Los Angeles and my house is about the size of a grocery cart so I dont need TONS of volume. Just want good sound at medium-low volumes. Wharfs sensitivity is like 86db.

Been researching a lot but don't see a TON of discussion about the relative quality of phono preamps. Obviously I wanna ditch the ART and am hoping for an improvement. Does this vary much from brand to brand, or are they all pretty much the same?

Aesthetically I lean a bit into the blue era stuff (2230, 737) but any 70s silver face will do. :) Hate to admit it, but a big part of this is just my desire for an awesome looking stereo, haha.

For reference, my studio rig is a pair of ATCs with a Jim Williams modded Adcom amp with subs, so I've got that kinda vibe covered. Now I want an ENJOYABLE listening experience, haha. Don't get me wrong, it sounds amazing, but its very clinical. I'd like this rig to be more of the warm, smooth, old school vibe. I'd probably like a tube amp, but thats likely not gonna happen at this point.

Thanks all! Hope I've adequately followed forum decorum! :)

Mike
Click to expand...
Realistic receivers are a great option classic midpower sta95 one of the best looking seventies receivers sta2080 very good sounding duel phono inputs had tone midrange and bass controls good loudness control 2 tunning meters and 2 power meters, classic looks and 80wpc at .03% rms a great performer sta2290 early digital with wood sides and aluminum face plate led peak meters solid unit 90wpc at .05% sta2500 and sta2600 100 wpc at .05% the early digitals usaully fly under the radar and go pretty cheap and have nice phono amps
 
Blue Shadow said:
There is variability of quality but in general most of the gear sold in the hi-fi stores of the day are pretty good. The later in the 70s you go the cleaner they sound as the use of transistors was becoming well understood and the spec wars were in full combat. Earlier 70s gear had a more tube like sound with higher distortion because folks were making gear to replace tube gear and were learning how to lower distortion numbers. The stuff doesn't sound bad because of that and many like the blue light Pioneers better than the silver ones from later years.

I haven't heard a comment about a bad sounding phono stage. Some of this age might need new caps and we usually change the small ones for film caps of better performance.

You want the best, Luxman R-1050. Good substitute, folks like the Pioneer SX-737. But the Onkyo TX-2500 II is very capable as are the rest in that line. I don't receiver, much, I have an R-1050 and its replacement the R-3055. I've sold both SX-737s but one to a friend because he wanted it so much and they were easy to come by. Just to many to chose from is the reason I say buy what shows up at the proper price in your area. If it is a good price, contact the seller before you post about it and don't provide the contact info, vultures will swoop in and try to grab your catch.

If you find a unit that is recapped and ready to go it will be better than one that has never been serviced. There are some that like the original units, just using cleaner on the scratchy knobs and such and enjoy them as is. But there is a larger group that think the sound quality is better on a refreshed unit.

Homework:
all of these are Popularity Contests. Folks want to think that what they have is best so they post their particular unit(s). Some have almost every device in the category mentioned at least once and some post their amps in a receiver poll but you can get an idea of what some of these units look like and learn why just some bloke on ak likes it. I made a list in one of the threads maybe page 10 or so and over 90 units had already been mentioned. So it is obvious that folks just want their unit on the list and they love it. Not that they have compared it to more than one or two other units.

Call back when you need to come up for air with any questions.

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/your-favorite-low-power-70s-receiver.867948/

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...orite-middle-range-receivers-int-amps.881740/

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...te-small-receiver-of-all-time-and-why.652879/

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/your-favorite-low-power-receivers.572185/

This one is for the big receivers, boys like power.
https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/whats-the-best-receiver-you-ever-heard.302833/
Click to expand...

Thank you for all this info! Very helpful!
 
Just recall that when you get vintage, you might get a gem or something that has been flogged for years. With the increase in costs for vintage, consider what phono amp your money will buy from the new or nearly new marketplace.

If you still want vintage, consider Yamaha A-700, 720, 1000, or 1020. Not silver face, but a lot of value for the money spent and with nice phono stages.
 
Thanks, that’s good advice. Still not sure how wide of a range there is in old phono stages with these receivers. Are there any particular brands people would view as inferior?
 
_MdS_ said:
Still not sure how wide of a range there is in old phono stages with these receivers. Are there any particular brands people would view as inferior?
Click to expand...
The only inferior products are ones that are in groups that some folks don't care for specific brands. There is no consensus of a brand or two that aren't good stuff if the stereo store sold them. Lloyd's SoundDesign and such are lesser brands but we don't talk about them much at all. Even the J.C.Penney brand MCS was decent gear.

The main input in the 70s to the mid-80s was the turntable. I haven't read of a bad phono stage in the gear. Sure some may prefer their external more modern phono amp but the original might not have been refreshed or the new one might be a higher quality unit costing as much as the receiver.

NAD gear is said to sound pretty good so you should look for a receiver that is known to sound good, not known to be going up on value. The Onkyo, HK mentions are worthy. But what is available where you are?
 
I've got a Denon DRA-300, that sounds very good. Rated at 30 watts into 8 Ohms, but it can output 80 watts into a 2 Ohm load. So, a very decent power supply.

denon_dra-300_am-fm_stereo_tuner_amplifier.jpg
 
Unless you have lots of time, money and patience, finding a specific receiver or even brand is tough. I kind of like the serendipity of coming across great items just by being in the right place at the right time, or scanning CL etc at the right time. As others have said most receivers from that time that were built well enough to still be around today are pretty good. Just look for the features and general power that you want. Looks counts too! And I second the posts about HK receivers. I have an HK 330c which I love, both it's performance and it's style!
 
Thanks guys...I'm in a big city, so lots of options, but of course prices seem pretty high as well. Currently eyeing a Kenwood KR-6600 and a Sansui G-3500. Both pretty affordable and seemingly up to date. Pioneer sx-737 fully rebuilt, but twice the cash. I'm down to pay more for better stuff, but of course always trying to keep it reasonable.
 
_MdS_ said:
Pioneer sx-737
Click to expand...

My opinion:

As an example, you will find TONS of favorable opinions on this receiver in the Pioneer forum. Also, there are experts there who know this receiver inside and out, and parts lists etc. for any issue you might have. There are nice people who will actually walk you through some repairs.

I think there's some benefit to going with a popular model for the plentiful advice and possibility of parts lists. If you google "Audiokarma SX-737" etc and see how many hits you get it might be a good indicator.

(you'll probably end up with more than one receiver!)
 
Thats a good point, and the 737 hit my radar early based on the various descriptions of it. I've got some electronics experience working on guitar amps and pedals, but I'm also pretty busy, but I might be up for a project too so sort of weighing how easy a given option is to work on too. Being well documented is certainly worthwhile. Oh to have grown up in the internet age when all things are spelled out for you! :-)
 
A rebuilt 737 is a solid choice and should give you decades of faithful service. I'm partial to Pioneer, but everybody has their favorites. Nobody mentioned Nikko yet. Maybe a little flimsy and boring in comparison, but the entry level model I had in college really sounded great. I'm not sure if this in indicative of the entire line, but I rebuilt a Marantz 1070 a few weeks ago. It's rated at 35W/Ch. I clocked a little over 90W at 1kHz with both channels driven and it hadn't even hit clipping. The inductors on the outputs were singing and my dummy load is only rated at 100W, so I decided to stop there.
 
IMHO a nice 737 is hard to beat for the money. As long as your speakers aren’t demanding they sound VERY good to my ears. I still have one in my shop paired with a pair of ADS L620’s, sounds fantastic. Every bit as good as my 2252, but the phono section in the Marantz is better in my opinion.
 
Buy a cheap HT receiver as most that are 15+yrs old will have a phono stage. If you dont like the internal phono stage of HT receiver you can by a MM/MC external Phono stage from Cambridge, Pro-ject or Emotiva for around 100.00. Plenty of HT receiver w/ remotes for under 100.00.

If vintage is what your chasing look at off brands:

Nikko
JVC
MCS
Toshiba
Vector Research
HH Scott
Akai
Optonica
etc....
 
nolasally said:
Buy a cheap HT receiver as most that are 15+yrs old will have a phono stage. If you dont like the internal phono stage of HT receiver you can by a MM/MC external Phono stage from Cambridge, Pro-ject or Emotiva for around 100.00. Plenty of HT receiver w/ remotes for under 100.00.

If vintage is what your chasing look at off brands:

Nikko
JVC
MCS
Toshiba
Vector Research
HH Scott
Akai
Optonica
etc....
Click to expand...
Thanks. Already have an NAD and a phono pre that I’m looking to replace with a cool old vintage receiver. I’ll check out those brands for sure.
 
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