MX 121

[Snappahead]

Merry Christmas fellas!

Ryan found me a clean 121 to replace my fried 119 and I have a couple of issues. First of all, the phono stage has a problem. Noisy, distorted, just bad. Not sure if it's a problem with the unit or if there is a way to switch the voltage between MC and MM?

Tone Controls, Are there tone controls hidden somewhere? I keep playing in the menu and adjusted levels, but call me old fashioned, I'd like to turn up the bass a smidge. Cannot for the life of me figure out how to do so. I keep thinking there is an on screen menu that I'm not accessing. Any ideas?

Thanks much

 

[TSmith8605]

The MX 121 does not support MC phono cartridges only MM and does not allow any type of reassignment of the phono inputs so there are no switches to set.

Have you tested with two different turntables to determine if the phono noise / distortion is from the MX or the turntable? Do you hear the noise with nothing plugged into the phono input? You should hear some constant background hiss at high volume settings but nothing else. If you determine for sure the issue is with the MX phono section and not your turntable or interconnects, then the MX will need to be returned for repair.

I share your frustration with the lack of balance and tone controls when using the MX as a 2-channel preamp but the MX 121 is designed for a multi-channel home theater setup and has to control up to 7 channels plus a subwoofer. The MX does have an on-screen menu to manually set relative levels for all 7 channels and a subwoofer. You have to plug the MX into a TV and do this via setup menus - follow the instructions on page 36 (at least in my copy) of the Owner's Manual.

Likewise, the MX 121 has an equalizer capability (rather than tone controls) accessible via the setup menus with the TV. Instructions for manual settings start on page 29.

You should have received a microphone and microphone stand with MX. You can use that to have the MX send test signals to the speakers and automatically set up relative levels, EQ and time delays. Instructions start on page 17 for that.

In general, this thing is pretty complex and you need to spend some time with the owner's manual to get it set up.

I really like my MX, BTW.

 

[Snappahead]

The MX 121 does not support MC phono cartridges only MM and does not allow any type of reassignment of the phono inputs so there are no switches to set.

Have you tested with two different turntables to determine if the phono noise / distortion is from the MX or the turntable? Do you hear the noise with nothing plugged into the phono input? You should hear some constant background hiss at high volume settings but nothing else. If you determine for sure the issue is with the MX phono section and not your turntable or interconnects, then the MX will need to be returned for repair.

I share your frustration with the lack of balance and tone controls when using the MX as a 2-channel preamp but the MX 121 is designed for a multi-channel home theater setup and has to control up to 7 channels plus a subwoofer. The MX does have an on-screen menu to manually set relative levels for all 7 channels and a subwoofer. You have to plug the MX into a TV and do this via setup menus - follow the instructions on page 36 (at least in my copy) of the Owner's Manual.

Likewise, the MX 121 has an equalizer capability (rather than tone controls) accessible via the setup menus with the TV. Instructions for manual settings start on page 29.

You should have received a microphone and microphone stand with MX. You can use that to have the MX send test signals to the speakers and automatically set up relative levels, EQ and time delays. Instructions start on page 17 for that.

In general, this thing is pretty complex and you need to spend some time with the owner's manual to get it set up.

I really like my MX, BTW.

Thanks for the advice. I'm slowly getting familiar with the set up and getting it tweaked. In my manual it says the phono stage is either MC or MM. I assumed there would be a way to switch between the 2. I was able to find simple bass and treble controls which helps. I mostly will be using it for TV / Movies as it's in the family room which everyone uses. But occasionally, like this time of year, music is important. I'll just keep fiddling until I get it dialed in. It seems the setup is a bit awkward, at least to me.

 

[c_dk]

I still contend that a properly setup theater system can and often will outperform most two channel audio systems for music as well as theatrical presentations.

Yes they are more complicated therefore easy to screw up, and yes there is so much
"Legend" about hifi that gets in the way of proper setup.

The theater people put so much effort to support the emotional feel of movies via music that I find the compromises so many apply to the multi channel setups crazy, especially when they then critique the sound as being marginal.

I do wonder if a properly setup theater system might, even as with a well designed two channel system, revel so many flaws in the native recording process that "fixing" the bad recordings being much more difficult with a multichannel system adds to the misconception.

 

[TSmith8605]

Thanks for the advice. I'm slowly getting familiar with the set up and getting it tweaked. In my manual it says the phono stage is either MC or MM. I assumed there would be a way to switch between the 2. I was able to find simple bass and treble controls which helps. I mostly will be using it for TV / Movies as it's in the family room which everyone uses. But occasionally, like this time of year, music is important. I'll just keep fiddling until I get it dialed in. It seems the setup is a bit awkward, at least to me.

OK, found the bass and treble controls also buried in the set up menus but I can find no reference to MC phono support anywhere in the manual.

If you're still having issues with the turntable noise and distortion, another thing to try would be the "Pure Direct" mode which bypasses all digital processing for analog sources. There's a button on the front panel for that. If using "Pure Direct" fixes the phono distortion problem, then the issue is with the digital processing.

 

[Snappahead]

OK, found the bass and treble controls also buried in the set up menus but I can find no reference to MC phono support anywhere in the manual.

If you're still having issues with the turntable noise and distortion, another thing to try would be the "Pure Direct" mode which bypasses all digital processing for analog sources. There's a button on the front panel for that. If using "Pure Direct" fixes the phono distortion problem, then the issue is with the digital processing.

In the enlarged handout that came with the manual (MC1A) under the phono jack description it says it accepts MM and "high output moving coil cartridges."

I found the bass and treble controls, not easy to get too. Now I'm having a weird issue. The sound cuts out intermittently and randomly. Seems to happen on all sources. Frustrating considering how much effort it took to get this installed, programmed and set up.

 

[twiiii]

When I got my 151 the soft ware had been updated to prevent issues from down loading music etc from a couple of sites on the internet. The update cancelled my tone controls. So Ryan sent me the previous soft ware to return the tone controls. I let my computer down load the music and then use either my Apple TV module for HT or one of the airport expresses for either the remote system or the Stereo analog section of my systems. Maybe that applies to your 121. I know there is no balance control and is one of the reasons of the pass thru feature to allow you to use an analog pre-amp in conjunction with your HT processor. I built a switch box so my C-34 can drive the front channels of the HT system directly by passing the 151. I also drive one of the tine inputs of the 151 with the 34 so I can use effects to generate 3.0 or 5.0 from a conventional analog stereo source if I wish.

 

[TSmith8605]

In the enlarged handout that came with the manual (MC1A) under the phono jack description it says it accepts MM and "high output moving coil cartridges.". . .

OK, that explains it: "high output moving coil cartridges" don't require from the phono section anything different than MM cartridges. But low output moving coil cartridges require an addition amplification stage (phono pre-preamp) or step up transformer (SUT) ahead of the MM phono preamp. The MX does not support LOMC pre-preamplification and so has no MC / MM switching to switch the pre-preamp function in and out of the circuit. High output moving coil cartridges have fewer (moving) coils than high output moving coil cartridges which (in theory) allows for a quicker, more accurate response but because they have fewer coils, they develop lower output signals and so require extra amplification up front.

. . .I found the bass and treble controls, not easy to get too. Now I'm having a weird issue. The sound cuts out intermittently and randomly. Seems to happen on all sources. Frustrating considering how much effort it took to get this installed, programmed and set up.

Sorry to hear about this. Aside from double-checking your interconnections from the MX to the amplifier(s) and making sure the speaker connections are secure, I have no advice for these issues. I guess you need to call AC.

 

[TSmith8605]

When I got my 151 the soft ware had been updated to prevent issues from down loading music etc from a couple of sites on the internet. The update cancelled my tone controls. So Ryan sent me the previous soft ware to return the tone controls. I let my computer down load the music and then use either my Apple TV module for HT or one of the airport expresses for either the remote system or the Stereo analog section of my systems. Maybe that applies to your 121. I know there is no balance control and is one of the reasons of the pass thru feature to allow you to use an analog pre-amp in conjunction with your HT processor. I built a switch box so my C-34 can drive the front channels of the HT system directly by passing the 151. I also drive one of the tine inputs of the 151 with the 34 so I can use effects to generate 3.0 or 5.0 from a conventional analog stereo source if I wish.

I pass the front L-R channel outputs of my MX through my C220 and so use the C220 as a 2-channel stereo preamp for my music sources. The c220 does not have a pass-thru feature so I just connect the MX (front L-R channels) into the C220 tape input and when using the MX, set the C220 to that input and set volume to 80 and then control everything with the MX.

 

[twiiii]

Audio purists would say the 220 is coloring the sound of the 121. Just like others say the 151 colors my C-34. You are dammed if you do or dammed if you don't. Using the MP 100 to drive the C-34 for MC cartridge and the MX 151 thru line inputs I know which one color which. Its the C-34. But a little tweek of the mid bass control and the midrange control and the C-34 sounds just like the 151 and the predicessor C-29 did. Hooorah!.

 

[TSmith8605]

Audio purists would say the 220 is coloring the sound of the 121. . .

And, per the laws of physics, the C220 is also adding noise and distortion to the sound of the MX121. But these issues are not very detectable when "watching TV" or even watching DVD / Bluray concert videos. In fact, in the case of concert videos, I find a noticeably larger improvement in SQ by switching from "auto" digital processing mode to "direct" mode than by removing the C220. So everything is relative. And for the phono and MCD500 SACD sources, I am using the C220 directly to the power amp(s), to be, er, pure. Another problem with this arrangement is running (wasting) the tubes in the C220 when just watching TV, etc. but at least I can keep the phono section tubes shut off (as allowed by the C220 setup).

So I would prefer a 2-channel preamp with a pure pass-through which to me means it will just switch an input to the output and pass it through even if the preamp is off. I guess, I could just rig an pre-amp A/B switch but that's complicated since I am bi-amping with the woofer running from the unbalanced pre-outs and the main speaker from the balance outputs. So I'd need a balanced / XLR A/B switch and an balanced RCA A/B switch.

Also, the MX121 is pretty good and might just be good enough to use for everything without a 2-channel preamp, especially in "pure direct" mode for the analog sources.

This is not settled yet in my system.

 

[Snappahead]

Audio purists would say the 220 is coloring the sound of the 121. Just like others say the 151 colors my C-34. You are dammed if you do or dammed if you don't. Using the MP 100 to drive the C-34 for MC cartridge and the MX 151 thru line inputs I know which one color which. Its the C-34. But a little tweek of the mid bass control and the midrange control and the C-34 sounds just like the 151 and the predicessor C-29 did. Hooorah!.

Huh? Me brain hurts.

 

[Snappahead]

I still contend that a properly setup theater system can and often will outperform most two channel audio systems for music as well as theatrical presentations.

Yes they are more complicated therefore easy to screw up, and yes there is so much
"Legend" about hifi that gets in the way of proper setup.

The theater people put so much effort to support the emotional feel of movies via music that I find the compromises so many apply to the multi channel setups crazy, especially when they then critique the sound as being marginal.

I do wonder if a properly setup theater system might, even as with a well designed two channel system, revel so many flaws in the native recording process that "fixing" the bad recordings being much more difficult with a multichannel system adds to the misconception.

I'm sure properly set up 5.1 system would be great. The room where I have the 121 is our family room. I nor my wife would like to see it cluttered with speakers. Everything is built into a custom built cabinet, two floor standers, and surrounds are in ceiling. It's a very large room so 5.1 for watching TV really helps. Basically the processor is a necessary evil to control everything. Watching a movie or a game and it sounds great. At least good enough for us. I really like nice 2 channel for times like yesterday where we were all in this room and Christmas music was on all day.

 

[c_dk]

Some of the best stereo recordings done live were done with three identical microphones L,C,andR.

Whether Mercury Living Presence or later Telarc recordings these records were the reference for a quality recording.

Why wouldn't we today replicate that standard and use three identical speakers across the front. Hopefully as close to full range as our interior decorator would allow us to use.

Now I do understand that most modern popular recordings are but mere caricatures of a true live performance what with all the over dubbing and such but you would hope that the recording engineers for audio recordings are at least attempting to create the illusion of a live event.

Movie engineers ARE truly attempting to create in your mind a live event, to sync what your eyes see and ears hear.

Most are so skillfull with their emotion setting music few viewers even know the extent, of the most often traditional classical instruments, being used to set the scene.

Trying to match a low frequency effect woofer ( the technically correct name for a theater subwoofer), to a tower speaker pair and a marginal center speaker is a effort in futility. It is usually easier and most often a more pleasing setup compromise to use a superior center speaker and lesser L and R speakers.

 

[twiiii]

Usually THX approved Home theatre systems use more directional speakers up front because they have to deal with the added reverberant sound the rear and side speakers generate. So a HT system used in the Stereo mode, with or with out a subwoofer will sound more forward bringing the performance forward into the room. Most folks use point source speakers for stereo and their presentation usually is further recessed in producing a stereo image than the HT speakers would. Another issue is the sweet spot, it will be broader with the Stereo speakers. HT speakers are designed to present well defined spatial clues as effects zoom around between the speakers. Now there are variations of this. people using Horn loaded speakers with big midrange horns for stereo systems might have even better spatial control that folks using HT speakers from M&K, such as the S150 or S300. Its all a matter of choice and the sound you prefer. I like line arrays for stereo and in my space they work well for HT left and right. The center uses the same drivers except the tweeters are mounted in a fraction of a spherical array as you might expect from a 40 X 90 horn. Making a great center speaker and rear speakers. The side speakers using the same drivers fewer in number are basically point source in design. What is great is all the speakers have the same family sound, not calling attention individually from the remaining speakers. The deigns are originated long before HT I am just lucky they integrate so well. I have never like listening to speakers close up, ie. less than 12 ft . Its. something I learned from having Altecs with horns and multiple woofers. You need distance so the drivers become one voice. In the RV the smaller M&K speakers sound was to diffuse unless I closed all the blinds and curtains, then the definition was just about right. I.E. that the relation ship between the direct sound of the speaker and the reverberant sound of the space was appropriate. So you might say there are no definite rules about stereo vs. HT systems producing a stereo recording. Some do it very well, others don't.

 

[leftside]

Also, the MX121 is pretty good and might just be good enough to use for everything without a 2-channel preamp, especially in "pure direct" mode for the analog sources.

This is not settled yet in my system.

VMT. I liked the 2-channel sound in "pure direct" mode (connected to an external DAC) enough that I removed and sold a C2300 preamp, which I then used the money towards a C500T in my separate dedicated music listening room.

I'm a huge fan of the MX121 digital processing for movies, but I wasn't a fan of the DAC in the unit for 2-channel music listening - hence the addition of an external DAC and setting the MX121 to pure direct.

 

[Snappahead]

VMT. I liked the 2-channel sound in "pure direct" mode (connected to an external DAC) enough that I removed and sold a C2300 preamp, which I then used the money towards a C500T in my separate dedicated music listening room.

I'm a huge fan of the MX121 digital processing for movies, but I wasn't a fan of the DAC in the unit for 2-channel music listening - hence the addition of an external DAC and setting the MX121 to pure direct.

That's exactly what I did.

 

[akuasleep]

Hi. Could one of you please send me the configuration file from mx121 saved via web interface? I would upload it to my mx121. It might solve my problem with the mx121.