New Cartridge Looks Dangerously Close To Record

[imail724]

I bought the Nagaoka MP-200 a few months ago, but I just noticed how close the cartridge looks to the record being played.

Am I crazy? Is it possible that the cartridge could ride against the record? How do you even adjust something like this? I'm not sure if I set it up incorrectly or if this is just how close it is supposed to be. I tested the tracking force with a scale and adjusted the counter weight accordingly when setting it up.

 

[patient_ot]

What TT is this? Is the arm height adjustable?

 

[bberkom]

Looks like your VTA is off. The arm tube should be parallel to the record surface, and yours looks tipped back a little. Does your turntable have adjustable VTA?

 

[johnjhazel]

Looks like you need to raise the tonearm pillar to get the tonearm/top of cartridge parallel to the record.

 

[jbrainey]

Definitely...VTA/tone arm angle is wrong. While you're at it, the overhang looks wrong also.

 

[imail724]

What TT is this? Is the arm height adjustable?

It's an Onkyo CP-1055FII. Im not sure if the arm height is adjustable. Would I usually need to take the tt apart to do that or would there be some kind of adjustment knob or something?

As for the headshell, this is the original one that came with the tt as far as I'm aware.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is VTA and how do I adjust it?

 

[imail724]

Is this an ADC headshell? Doesn't look like the cart rides it properly. I don't like the angle. The whole of it. Try a real headshell or raise the tonearm to increase VTA.

I don't know what an ADC headshell is. What would you consider a "real" headshell for this cart?

 

[tnsilver]

What would you consider a "real" headshell for this cart?

One that can accomodate the full length of the cart.

These are ADC type headshell both generic and stock:

VTA (vertical tracking angle) is in general referred to as the angle the tip of the stylus forms with the surface of the record. It is affected
by many factors such as the springiness of the cantilever, the precision of the factory mounting and etc... but also directly related to the angle
the body of the cart forms with the surface of the record. In this case, it's quite obvious the body isn't parallel with the record surface and it's also
obvious the front edge of the headshell is an unfortunate support which reacts with the mounting screws shafts and causes a tilt that offsets
the parallel position of the body. To fix it, you were advised to raise the tonearm from the pillar end, such that the body of the cart aligns more
closely to the parallel green line I've sketched earlier. You can also try to shim the cart so it parallels out with the record.

Perhaps, if there's enough room in the headshell slots, pull back the whole contraption so it's better supported by the headshell.

 

[imail724]

One that can accomodate the full length of the cart.

These are ADC type headshell both generic and stock:

VTA (vertical tracking angle) is in general referred to as the angle the tip of the stylus forms with the surface of the record. It is affected
by many factors such as the springiness of the cantilever, the precision of the factory mounting and etc... but also directly related to the angle
the body of the cart forms with the surface of the record. In this case, it's quite obvious the body isn't parallel with the record surface and it's also
obvious the front edge of the headshell is an unfortunate support which reacts with the mounting screws shafts and causes a tilt that offsets
the parallel position of the body. To fix it, you were advised to raise the tonearm from the pillar end, such that the body of the cart aligns more
closely to the parallel green line I've sketched earlier.

Thanks for the info! Ok, so 2 things, do you think I need to upgrade my headshell? I think mine looks like the ones you posted, but Im not really sure. What kind of specs would I be looking for if I need to buy one? Do I measure the length of the cartridge and find one that length? This one's about 1 inch long FWIW. And 2, do you have any info on how i can adjust my tonearm height or if I even can with this model? I don't see any type of crank or anything like I've seen on other turntables, but maybe I need to unscrew something? It's an older tt so it's kind of tough to find a lot of info on it. Is it possible this cart just isn't compatible with this tt? I had a Ortofon VMS30 on it previously.


Edit: just saw your edit. Unfortunately the cart is already pulled back just about as far as it will go on the headshell, but your suggestion about shimming it is interesting. You think if I put a little folded up piece of paper or something under the front of the headshell it might help?

 

[imail724]

I found the repair manual online and found how to raise the platter. I'm not sure if this is any better though, but I don't think it gets any higher than this.

 

[tnsilver]

You've actually made it worst. You need to lower the platter if you can. Lowering the platter is the geometric equivalent of raising the tonearm.

 

[imail724]

You've actually made it worst. You need to lower the platter if you can. Lowering the platter is the geometric equivalent of raising the tonearm.

Lol of course I did. Would one of these VTA guages make this easier than guessing and checking?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0771Z3XMH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_6si6Cb5M9X10S

 

[Montycat]

That can be a handy tool but you can do what you need without it.

Another thing you can look at is potentially a thinner mat. Maybe the one you have is thicker than it should be.

 

[imail724]

Ok here it is with the platter lowered all the way and I removed my slipmat just in case that was throwing it off. Looks about the same to me but I don't know.

 

[patient_ot]

Quite honestly these 80s turntables with the skinny arm and small plastic headshell were probably never meant to be used with this cart or any other that has a fat blocky body. Carts like most AT models, Ortofon OM series, etc (NOT 2M) are probably a better match and will give you more clearance plus fit the headshell better.

 

[lini]

p_ot: Actually the OMs are pretty tall, too - LM family would be more ideal.


i724: I'd suggest to consider wedged installation, as already proposed by Tom above.


Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[imail724]

i724: I'd suggest to consider wedged installation, as already proposed by Tom above.


Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Any advice on how to do this? Never seen anyone do it before and knowing me I'll end up doing more harm than good if I just try to wing it.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Any advice on how to do this? Never seen anyone do it before and knowing me I'll end up doing more harm than good if I just try to wing it.

It won't be a simple thing with the mounting screws being so close to the front. The wedge really needs to be in front of the screws to force the front down. The only real alternative is to make a wedge shaped mounting plate that fits between the whole cartridge and headshell, this might require longer mounting screws.

 

[imail724]

So you wouldn't recommend just replacing the headshell? Wouldn't that help a lot?

 

[Tiver]

Ok here it is with the platter lowered all the way and I removed my slipmat just in case that was throwing it off. Looks about the same to me but I don't know.
View attachment 1518164 View attachment 1518165

I looked at the manual for the turntable and did not see anything that would allow adjustment of the VTA. I think what you adjusted was the cue lever height. This adjustment simply determines how high the arm is lifted off the record when using the cue or when the auto function is at work.

To supplement the previous suggestions let's just be clear what you are attempting....the red line in the picture below represents the record surface. The yellow line in the picture represents the flat surface on the bottom of your cartridge. Your goal is trying to make those two lines parallel.


If you were to shim to achieve this, you would be trying to tip the front of the cartridge down.

You asked if a paper shim could be used? You can shim with whatever means you have. There may be compromises in the mechanical connection between the head shell and the cartridge with a shim. This connection should have the cartridge set firmly against the head shell using the screws to maintain the solid connection.

The good news is , I have a doubt that any mechanical compromise will be noticeable sonically on that table, at this time, so long as the screws are able to attach firmly.

So, you are looking for a thin wedge that accomplishes what is shown in this picture. The wedge is thicker closer to the screws



It will be a small smooth wedge of a material you will have to find around the house. It should be firm and not compressible. Kind of like a guitar pick thickness in a wedge.