new el34 tubes questions

I think the thing about JJs, is getting the "good" ones. I've heard the horror stories about pin sizing and crooked bottles, but have never had an issue personally. Kegger runs the KT77s with very good results, and heck, even my GEC KT77 bottles are a bit crooked.:dunno: I believe the thing about "Any" tubes, is finding a dealer that you can trust, and building a relationship with them. That way, they know you're not doing stupid stuff that destroys tubes, and you know if you have an issue, they will stand behind their stuff. I ran JJ E34Ls in a Dynaco 70 for a long time, and they still test, and sound great.:music:
 
jaymanaa said:
The question might be, who makes a bad EL34?? I've run JJs, Svets, and EH, all with very good results. Do you have to have a matched quad Steve, or would "pairs" do.:scratch2:
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I would say for a Dynaco ST-70 you would need matched pairs as you adjust the bias for the left and right pair of EL34's with 2 separate potentiometers.

Sal
 
I only have 3 tubes and no way of testing them so I might only need two if I can get a close match out of the three I have. My tube tester is on the fritz and it won't test el34's anyway. I might just bring the tubes to Jays when I go. I don't want to spend megga bucks for a flip (re sale) amp though it might bring better returns.
 
Endspec said:
I only have 3 tubes and no way of testing them so I might only need two if I can get a close match out of the three I have. My tube tester is on the fritz and it won't test el34's anyway. I might just bring the tubes to Jays when I go. I don't want to spend megga bucks for a flip (re sale) amp though it might bring better returns.
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Yep, and chances are, you could find a match or two in the orphan EL 34 tote.:yes:
 
Jim McShane said:
Those are NOT SED/Winged C tubes. Those are the "Svetlana" branded tubes made in their Saratov plant by New Sensor. They purchased the rights to the name and the "S" logo (in the USA only).
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That is a true statement Jim, I should have mentioned that. The original poster mentioned he wanted a quad of EL34's at a reasonable cost, at $51.00 a quad for "Svetlana" tubes I would say that is reasonable.. :yes:

Sal
 
I have over 250 hours on my "Winged C" El 34's. I'm happy with the way they sound. Also, after burn in the bias/current draw have changed very little. I got them at AES. The cost was $100.00 and some change for the matched quad.
 
jaymanaa said:
I think the thing about JJs, is getting the "good" ones. I've heard the horror stories about pin sizing and crooked bottles, but have never had an issue personally. Kegger runs the KT77s with very good results, and heck, even my GEC KT77 bottles are a bit crooked.:dunno: I believe the thing about "Any" tubes, is finding a dealer that you can trust, and building a relationship with them. That way, they know you're not doing stupid stuff that destroys tubes, and you know if you have an issue, they will stand behind their stuff. I ran JJ E34Ls in a Dynaco 70 for a long time, and they still test, and sound great.:music:
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The pin size and bottle tilt are not the only issues with their tubes by far. Others I've noticed include:

1. Relatively large amounts of loose material in the tubes
2. Strange deposits/discoloration located on the tube's glass envelope in locations where nothing should be seen
3. Sharp-edged blunt ended (and/or misaligned) pins that damage the socket when the tube is inserted
4. Crumbling top edges on the tube bases (on brand new tubes)
5. The highest rate of early failure both during my testing and in the customer's use BY FAR

There were more, but those were the most numerous.

As well, they are very arrogant and unresponsive at JJ. I wrote them a few times to detail what I was finding, and the responses I got were total denials and attacks on my competence. I am not the only person to have had this experience.

Yes, they did change the tube pins back to the proper size, but the tubes made with the undersize pins were distributed and still show up on occasion. While I try to be a really good dealer and take the same care of my customers as I would want if I were in their shoes, even with very extensive screening the number of tubes that failed in the field was far too high and showed no signs of improvement. As well, I had rejection rates in my own testing as high as 60%.

That's why I no longer carry JJ octals.
 
Jim McShane said:
The pin size and bottle tilt are not the only issues with their tubes by far. Others I've noticed include:

1. Relatively large amounts of loose material in the tubes
2. Strange deposits/discoloration located on the tube's glass envelope in locations where nothing should be seen
3. Sharp-edged blunt ended (and/or misaligned) pins that damage the socket when the tube is inserted
4. Crumbling top edges on the tube bases (on brand new tubes)
5. The highest rate of early failure both during my testing and in the customer's use BY FAR

There were more, but those were the most numerous.

As well, they are very arrogant and unresponsive at JJ. I wrote them a few times to detail what I was finding, and the responses I got were total denials and attacks on my competence. I am not the only person to have had this experience.

Yes, they did change the tube pins back to the proper size, but the tubes made with the undersize pins were distributed and still show up on occasion. While I try to be a really good dealer and take the same care of my customers as I would want if I were in their shoes, even with very extensive screening the number of tubes that failed in the field was far too high and showed no signs of improvement. As well, I had rejection rates in my own testing as high as 60%.

That's why I no longer carry JJ octals.
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Other than the fact that the JJs sounded a bit more extended on the high end, I don't have any actual reason to defend JJ one way or another but I did like the sound. Until they failed. They did answer my e-mail faster than I expected, though. It wasn't more than a short, impersonal response but that's about all I was expecting, anyway. I only have one amp that uses EL-34, but the reliability issue is something I can definitely relate to when you have customers. These were mine and if a customers' equipment had been involved, I wouldn't have been as understanding, although I did buy them from a distributor and they replaced them.

60% is an insanely high rate and I wouldn't have stood for it, either.
 
as long as you guys are answering or discussing 34's. I've read not to run certain tubes with certain amps. Something about not being designed to bias higher voltage requirements, or something like that...maybe Endspecs st70 wouldn't like 1 tube from the other? Maybe I should learn to read spec sheets.
 
highfigh said:
Other than the fact that the JJs sounded a bit more extended on the high end, I don't have any actual reason to defend JJ one way or another but I did like the sound. Until they failed. They did answer my e-mail faster than I expected, though. It wasn't more than a short, impersonal response but that's about all I was expecting, anyway. I only have one amp that uses EL-34, but the reliability issue is something I can definitely relate to when you have customers. These were mine and if a customers' equipment had been involved, I wouldn't have been as understanding, although I did buy them from a distributor and they replaced them.

60% is an insanely high rate and I wouldn't have stood for it, either.
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Let me just add that I have nothing against JJ. I wish I could trust their stuff! I do handle some of their line, like the excellent EL84, the 12DW7, and a few more. They used to make a wonderful 6L6GC with a red base, and the E34L was another fine tube. And a few examples of each type are okay even now - but the odds on getting a "good one" are not so good.

I do have sympathy for Bob Pletka (Eurotubes) - he's trying to be an exclusive JJ vendor, and has some family ties to the families that own JJ. He's depending on them to make good tubes, and it seems they are letting him down. That's gotta be tough on him for sure.
 
Jim McShane said:
I do have sympathy for Bob Pletka (Eurotubes) - he's trying to be an exclusive JJ vendor, and has some family ties to the families that own JJ. He's depending on them to make good tubes, and it seems they are letting him down. That's gotta be tough on him for sure.
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Bob Pletka is the only guy from whom I'd buy a JJ tube. I've heard nothing but good things said about the way he runs his business, and I've exchanged a few friendly emails where he was attentive and helpful.

I'd love to be confident enough to buy a couple JJ octals, as I hear they can be very good when they are good. It's just the negative quality control reports that get me down. :(
 
What about KT77?

Usable in any EL34 amp, now the GEC ones are very expensive, but the JJ KT77 are very reasonable. I have bought two sets and cannot tell them sonically from the GEC ones.

My EL34 Radford STA25 works beautifully with the JJ KT77
 
Well I must say, I havent bought any JJ octals, only ECC82's and 3's and then several sets of EL84 that I have had no problems with at all.

Ive got an AC30 guitar amp that was re-built & re-tubed with all JJ's except the recto back in 07'. Its had 120 hours since then with no problems.

Thats ECC83's & EL84's
 
Jim McShane said:
I do handle some of their line, like the excellent EL84
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resound said:
several sets of EL84 that I have had no problems with at all.
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I've used them for years in guitar amps with no problems. Since I've started using them for audio, I've had one bad tube out of a half-dozen, which was promptly replaced by the dealer.

They are fine sounding tubes, esp. given the price.

Back when I had Marshall guitar amps, I didn't care for the JJ EL-34 tone, although reliability was not an issue.
 
I've been pretty happy with my JJ EL84s - not that I had lots to compare to. But nice to see others also think they're a quality tube - I'll probably quit mulling rolling some Sovtek EL84Ms or the EHs.

Back to the OP - Seems like the SED EL34 and EH 6CA7 are both favorites. Any other comments on sound, reliability, and suitability to an ST70? I'm shopping and have really been waffling between the two.
Right now I've got some unidentified Rubys (I should get those figured out some day), something chinese (Servicemaster, I think), and some Sovtek EL34G (the Rubys are the best sounding of them) and would like to see if one of those two options are a marked improvement.
 
On the 6V6 question above, I've built many guitar amps using the JJ 6V6S. It's not a 6V6 in the traditional sense, in that it sounds more like a 6L6 than a 6V6, lots of clean headroom, built like a tank, and can take much higher voltages than a normal 6V6. I run them much harder than anyone is likely to in a stereo, and they hold up very well. I've only had 1 fail, and that was after about 2 years of gigging. Not bad.

rooster.
 
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