New rubber mat on a vintage table... surprised by the improvement!

Sam08861

Sam08861

Super Member
I have an old Luxman table and all was fine and good until I noticed that the platter mat had started to curl up on the edge. Taking the mat off to get a closer look, I was surprised to hear a faint crack. The rubber has gotten hard enough to be stiff in some places although completely pliable in others and also I noticed for the first time that it's warped. The warping isn't much and the weight of a record likely takes care of that, but looks janky w/o a record, now that I can't unsee it.

Anyway, I got one of those inexpensive 20 buck 300mm x 3mm silicone rubber jobbies off of baldy spaceman's site and sure it's nice and soft and more importantly flat.

While I've played around with different materials like cork, vinyl and even an aluminum disk, none sounded as good as the the stock rubber mat. The vinyl platter disc was great for the highs, but thinned out the mids and lows. Tried weights too, but these seemed to take the 'air' out of the high end.

I'd not tried a new rubber mat yet and wasn't expecting a sonic improvement, but wow! Quieter noise floor and less resonance. Noticeable in the first few seconds of play kind of difference. I am pleasantly shocked!

I knew the refreshed, softer rubber would help with grip and perhaps some resonance, but didn't expect such a difference. The original design is perfectly flat on the bottom side and the top is also flat, with no grooves or other such pattern and only a detent for the label area. The new one is flat on the bottom but grooved on the top, with a recess for the label.

On the lookout for a flat/ungrooved/unpatterened (except label recess) mat to see if refreshed rubber in the original design might be slightly better, as the table itself is known to suffer from resonance at louder volumes.
 
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I had the same experience with my Thorens table. Although it was not stiff or cracked the rubber seemed to be hard compared to an old Sony mat I had. The Sony really was an upgrade in terms of sound. Turntables really do seem to benefit from the smallest improvements. Who knew?
 
Here is my experience. A few years ago I purchased a Technics SL-1210MKII on eBay. It came with a Herbie Mat. The 1210 needed a little work so I ordered a new dust cover, tone arm wires and a new OEM rubber mat. When the 1210 was restored, I switched the mats back and forth and the rubber just sounded slightly better and my Lps were easier to get off the turntable platter. It's my opinion that the engineers at Technics knew what the were doing.
 
On my KD5070 with the OEM rubber mat, the platter still had a "ring" when the side was tapped. I used several pieces of double sided sticky tape to fix the mat to the table. Now it only "thuds" slightly when tapped.
 
hendertuckie said:
Here is my experience. A few years ago I purchased a Technics SL-1210MKII on eBay. It came with a Herbie Mat. The 1210 needed a little work so I ordered a new dust cover, tone arm wires and a new OEM rubber mat. When the 1210 was restored, I switched the mats back and forth and the rubber just sounded slightly better and my Lps were easier to get off the turntable platter. It's my opinion that the engineers at Technics knew what the were doing.
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In my opinion and experience, the OEM Technics mat is the best. It's just not as sexy as some aftermarket products. :)

Technics - Kirsten Bell mat.jpg
 
I suspect the OEM style mat is probably a good bet, if not the best option. I remember them being pretty flexible when new. Most of mine are less flexible than they were when new. But then again I'm not nearly as flexible as I was in 1982 either.

Whether or not ridges vs flat is better has probably been chewed to death many time over, but what is important is that the matt dampen vibration of the vinyl while supporting the record. I'm not sure if ridges or flat is better, it's easy to theorize either way, but without real measurements speculation is pretty useless.

Certainly a 40 year old mat won't be as good as a new identical one!

The point is to dampen sympathetic vibration and isolate the vinyl from external vibrations, and whatever works is good!
 
seems to depend on the specific table and specific mat. Also "better" is pretty hard to quantify but its certainly very possible to get a different sound out of different mats. Maybe you'll like it, maybe not. I swapped the mat on my TD-160 to a Herbies and I like the result, but as with all things YMMV.


that full contact vs not full contact thing is definitely endless. Do you want to isolate the record from the platter as much as possible to try and reduce drive system noises, or couple it as much as possible in order to keep the record from buzzing under the stylus? Ask 10 people, get 25 answers.
 
One good thing about turntable mats are they are (mostly) cheap to try, at least compared to cartridges. I am not expecting any change at all to be honest, but for 20 bones or less, I'll roll the dice, lol. That'll be one less McDowells family meal consumed solely by me.
 
Yes, platter mat plays a big part in sound! Even when you stack mats, the mat underneath can alter the sound too. Was using a cork & rubber mat that sounds nice. Then I placed a Technics rubber mat underneath and it sounds so much better now! Have adjustable on-the-fly VTA on my Jelco tonearm so it's not a problem stacking mats.
 
Ilikevinyl said:
Yes, platter mat plays a big part in sound! Even when you stack mats, the mat underneath can alter the sound too. Was using a cork & rubber mat that sounds nice. Then I placed a Technics rubber mat underneath and it sounds so much better now! Have adjustable on-the-fly VTA on my Jelco tonearm so it's not a problem stacking mats.
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oh ya, mats make a big difference

way back in the day I purchased an Audio Quest blue Sorbothane mat, cost $95, outstanding improvements to the SQ on my AR XA. Liked it so much I purchased a second for the Thorens, was in vinyl heaven............for about 3 months until I noticed to my horror my records were having an adverse reaction to the mats, they were blistering.

I've tried other mats mostly with less than stellar results compared with the OEM, that is until a couple of weeks ago. Without getting into the why my KD-500 OEM mat needed replacing I went online for one with no luck. So in the interim I tried the mat from my Kenwood KD-770D, all I can say is WOW, I was blown away by the improvement.

So back online I see what appears to be the same mat NOS on eBay in Germany but no info other than it's a Kenwood KD mat, ya that narrows it down lol. It wasn't cheap at $70 plus shipping but worth every penny if the mat I thought it to be.

Well it arrived Friday, exactly the same mat as hoped, not only does it look the same but has the same part # on the bottom. The mat is super flat, no ridges or raised parts, the records appear to be still when spinning the mat is just so friggin flat, did I mention it's flat?
 
I remember a few years ago a group of us sat around and listened to turntable mats. Maybe 8 or 9 different ones, all on the same table with the same record. Given a chance to listen to so many back to back the differences are pretty noticeable. Some of it may have been VTA shifts since none of that was controlled for but whatever the reason for a difference, it was definitely there.

I've told people that aren't audio nerds this and they just look at me like I'm completely off my rocker. Which could be true, but its probably not something who isn't a little far down the rabbit hole already would even consider.
 
Grenadeslio said:
oh ya, mats make a big difference

way back in the day I purchased an Audio Quest blue Sorbothane mat, cost $95, outstanding improvements to the SQ on my AR XA. Liked it so much I purchased a second for the Thorens, was in vinyl heaven............for about 3 months until I noticed to my horror my records were having an adverse reaction to the mats, they were blistering.

I've tried other mats mostly with less than stellar results compared with the OEM, that is until a couple of weeks ago. Without getting into the why my KD-500 OEM mat needed replacing I went online for one with no luck. So in the interim I tried the mat from my Kenwood KD-770D, all I can say is WOW, I was blown away by the improvement.

So back online I see what appears to be the same mat NOS on eBay in Germany but no info other than it's a Kenwood KD mat, ya that narrows it down lol. It wasn't cheap at $70 plus shipping but worth every penny if the mat I thought it to be.

Well it arrived Friday, exactly the same mat as hoped, not only does it look the same but has the same part # on the bottom. The mat is super flat, no ridges or raised parts, the records appear to be still when spinning the mat is just so friggin flat, did I mention it's flat?
Click to expand...

Yes, read the same about that Audio Quest Sorbothane mat. Wouldn't want that one. ;) I always say mix and match for best results. :music: Glad the Kenwood mat is sounding good. :thumbsup:
 
For Technics SL12xx and the copies... The old thick mat can really help with several problems one may have

I'm glad I bought 2 from KAB way back when
 
Sam08861 said:
Ran into this online that I had not previously noticed. Ceramic platter infused with silicone + stabilizer rings and weight for Kenwood tables. edit... combined weight of over 7lbs.
https://www.vintageshifi.com/repertoire-pdf/pdf/telecharge.php?pdf=Kenwood-DS-20-Brochure.pdf
https://www.vintageshifi.com/repertoire-pdf/pdf/telecharge.php?pdf=Kenwood-DS-20-Brochure.pdf
Click to expand...

Reminds me of those CD stabilizer rings, which were a big fad in the 1990s. I don't think that they made much difference to the sound quality.
themat_2.jpg
 
Mr Boochie said:
Reminds me of those CD stabilizer rings, which were a big fad in the 1990s. I don't think that they made much difference to the sound quality.
themat_2.jpg
Click to expand...

I remember those. They also had a special magic marker to use on the edge of the CD. Suppose to cut down on laser chatter and sound better.
 
I've tried SO many mats and eventually settled on felt. Good enough for Linn and Rega and they allow me to keep the platter spinning while I listen to multiple records. In the winter when they want to come off with the record, a bit of tape holds them on the platter. No muss, no fuss, easy and inexpensive. I like the way they look. I can't say I could ever really hear the difference between mats anyway, even though I sometimes thought I could.
 
My pioneer pl-115d oem rubber mat has grooves for the stabilizer rings but they were lost long ago.
I wonder if it would make any difference if I replaced them.. never really thought about what they were for before this thread
 
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