New to turntables... is it worth it and how much is needed.

bobins08 said:
Last night my daughter played a brand new Justin Timberlake 180 gram LP on my stereo. I was running a Denon DL 301 into an SUT connected to a awesome sounding tube preamp. This is a very good set up for analog.

She has this same music on CD or mp3. She made this comment: "your stereo does not sound as good as usual" .

I knew the "problem" was the source media. To me it sounded quite good for what it is. Modern recording, digital sound/compression, modern electronic instruments.

I explained the differences in recording today from the post eras. Then played some "demo" music such as Nat King Cole, Anita Baker, and James Taylor. She thought Nat and the orchestra were in the room. She was especially blown away by the real JT, the acoustic instruments, voices, percussion, and Sklar' s great bass playing. These LPs sound especially right on the original vinyl.

Sometimes it is the source recording optimized to the playback method of the times.
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Yes I agree, many older recordings are much better than contemporary ones, depending on the more natural recording techniqes, less processings and higher crest factors. But the thing is if I do a digital 'needledrop' of these recordings, they will sound the same as the original LPs.
 
gusten said:
So if I understand You correctly You have now proven that Lps sound 'better' than CDs once and for all. And it was this easy all along.
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If it sounds like I'm saying that then I should have chosen my words more carefully. CD can and does sound wonderful. What I'm really saying is the YouTube bias clip does not once and for all say CD is better than vinyl.

Media source. In fairness I don't buy modern club music of today. You won't find Taylor Swift or Justin Bieber in my collection. They may be engineered in such a way that they sound better in other formats. I can't comment on that. I do buy new music but even that probably would lean toward analog since most of it was recorded analog and mixed for analog. (New stuff recorded and mixed for analog like Blues Pills, Rival Sons, Vintage Trouble....)

I'm sure Autotune sounds best MP3.... Muffled and suppressed.
 
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Ken Boyd said:
Yup all you need is a Pioneer PL 530
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You guys can make fun of the humble Pioneer PL 530 all you want. I have done extensive comparisons with many multiple turntables including rp9, Roksan Radius 5.2, Music Hall Ikura, RP6, Thorens.... Say whatever you want my garage Sale $25 Pioneer held up very well against all of these tables. It mates very very well with the Goldring 1042.
 
Funky54 said:
If it sounds like I'm saying that then I should have chosen my words more carefully. CD can and does sound wonderful. What I'm really saying is the YouTube bias clip does not once and for all say CD is better than vinyl.
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What I am trying to say is that the potentials of either media, vinyl or digital, are not in any way used. Not recording wise, not playback wise. If we are experienced there is no problems pointing out flaws in what we listen to. The media itself is not the elephant in the room, not by far.
 
Funky54 said:
You guys can make fun of the humble Pioneer PL 530 all you want. I have done extensive comparisons with many multiple turntables including rp9, Roksan Radius 5.2, Music Hall Ikura, RP6, Thorens.... Say whatever you want my garage Sale $25 Pioneer held up very well against all of these tables. It mates very very well with the Goldring 1042.
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Nothing wrong with a PL 530! Have had them and loved them! Like my Dual's from that era, they are keepers. Don't like the under $1000 new stuff. Would have to go to a VPI Scout. With new garden tractor,garage fridge, and snow blower this year that not happening
 
Only on the 'net could such a question be decided the way that it has here. The following applies:

Me - I love my new Camaro. I'd like to test drive a new Mustang and see if I like it as well.
Buddy - No need. Your new Camaro is better in every way.

I thought we AKers were more objective.

OP - do yourself a favor and make up your mind after you take the test drive.
 
Not quite the way I read it.

Me I love my new Tesla I have the latest Software and new motor. If I buy an old Mustang will it perform as good as the Tesla or what upgrades will it take to run with the Tesla

Here on AK I thought the best way to be objective is to look at things objectively and compare apples to apples, not offset the apple wagon to make it lean to one side.

Remember the public, almost the entire world, made the choice to move to CD's, because they thought it the better source. The public didn't fight the industry to keep playing LP's because they thought that vinyl sounded better. If vinyl sounded equal, or better as some claim, why did you all jump ship in the first place?

Now move forward 20 years and suddenly the public changed its mind?


damacman said:
Only on the 'net could such a question be decided the way that it has here. The following applies:

Me - I love my new Camaro. I'd like to test drive a new Mustang and see if I like it as well.
Buddy - No need. Your new Camaro is better in every way.

I thought we AKers were more objective.

OP - do yourself a favor and make up your mind after you take the test drive.
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Ken Boyd said:
Remember the public, almost the entire world, made the choice to move to CD's, because they thought it the better source. The public didn't fight the industry to keep playing LP's because they thought that vinyl sounded better. If vinyl sounded equal, or better as some claim, why did you all jump ship in the first place?
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Based on that argument I guess MP3's must sound better.
 
Ken Boyd said:
Not quite the way I read it.

Me I love my new Tesla I have the latest Software and new motor. If I buy an old Mustang will it perform as good as the Tesla or what upgrades will it take to run with the Tesla

Here on AK I thought the best way to be objective is to look at things objectively and compare apples to apples, not offset the apple wagon to make it lean to one side.

Remember the public, almost the entire world, made the choice to move to CD's, because they thought it the better source. The public didn't fight the industry to keep playing LP's because they thought that vinyl sounded better. If vinyl sounded equal, or better as some claim, why did you all jump ship in the first place?

Now move forward 20 years and suddenly the public changed its mind?
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... and we know the public always gets what they want, makes the best choices, and is always informed and qualified.

We also know that big business has the best interest of the public in mind with every move they make.

Lots of reasons CD took over, sound quality is not one of them. The promise of great sound quality never really fulfilled. The existence of mp3' s is proof that sound quality is not a priority for the public. Convenience, storage, and portability are.

Hey I went heavy into CDs too. Stopped buying vinyl and put my records and turntable away. Not saying vinyl is for everyone. It is not.

Glad I am back into vinyl. With three kids now out of college, as I get closer to retirement I'm going to spend even more on analog playback. It feels good and sound good. Everyone should do what they like, it's a hobby.
 
Ken, I never jumped ship. Lots of folks didn't. Perfect Sound Forever was really more marketing than truth and we can see that more clearly today than ever. Thank God that digital has matured as it has. While many dumped their records, I was buying them at yard sales, Goodwill, used record stores, etc. all through the '90s and '00s.

I have many examples where the record trumps the digital format and many examples where the opposite is true. I enjoy both. Case in point, I listened to my copy of Muddy Waters Folk Singer on MFSL CD today and I was just blown away. It has definitely been too long since I listened to that disc - what a treat. A few days ago, I said the same thing of Pete Townshend / Ronnie Lane Rough Mix on (yard sale) vinyl - just out of this world good.

I'm not sure why you're trying your best to talk the OP out of getting his feet wet with vinyl. Especially considering the quality of vinyl that can be purchased NEW today.
 
I have posted my points, and the only way a person can know is by trying it themselves. It might be an investment that he finds is worthwhile, it might not be.

And as pointed out in prior post the OP was concerned with if the cost of music would be more inexpensive. I tried to make my point with what I think is an honest answer, that good Jazz vinyl and that includes new will be more expensive than the digital alternative.
 
Ken Boyd said:
I have posted my points, and the only way a person can know is by trying it themselves. It might be an investment that he finds is worthwhile, it might not be.

And as pointed out in prior post the OP was concerned with if the cost of music would be more inexpensive. I tried to make my point with what I think is an honest answer, that good Jazz vinyl and that includes new will be more expensive than the digital alternative.
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Well I shared what's happened when many have heard for themselves. You didn't like the answer because it didn't agree with the decision you made.

As to money? You didn't like that either. $25 turntable from a garage sale beat a $1200 CD player while playing a $3.00 record.
 
That kind of stuff happens ... when it does, folks look at things with greater perspective. That's never a bad thing.

FWIW, I paid $2 for my copy of Rough Mix.
 
I didn't make any decision, I just answered the OP's question with my opinion, and added the reasons why I made that opinion.
 
Lots of people letting their hearts rule their heads here..

Given a level playing field, digital is always going to beat vinyl, because it is inherently superior. People seem to be confusing differences in mastering, compression etc as proof vinyl is better, but it isn't, it is simply demonstrating that poor quality production effects the sound.

Let's also look at what the public want. Once again, it is digital, and by a country mile. Vinyl sales are tiny when compared with CD, and miniscule compared with downloads or streaming. Vinyl is a small market aimed mostly at audiophiles, and it will never be much more than that.

I have some outstanding classical music LPs. What they have in common is that they were all recorded digitally. Engineers of the time were not silly, as the aes article shows they were knocked out by the very real improvement in quality and quickly embraced the new medium.

Lastly, there's the price. A $100 CD player or DAC is going to be better and sound better than a $10000 vinyl rig. You might prefer the sound of the vinyl, but that's probably going to be more to do with the distortion it introduces than purity of sound.
 
Specs, numbers, professional opinions aside, if someone "likes the sound better" then it sounds better "to them".

It's all about the music, not the specs, charts, graphs, etc. Sit down, put away your sound meters and listen with your ears, if it sounds good then it is, period. If it sounds fatiguing, grating, etched, etc it doesn't matter what all the science says with it's graphs proving superiority it still sounds bad.
 
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