New VMN40ML Stylus Issue

C

chickenwings

New Member
I have an AT440MLb cartridge and I just replaced the stylus with a VMN40ML. Going through a Thorens 402 DD, Onkyo receiver and Monitor Audio Bronze 2 speakers.

It sounds good but something feels off. I balanced the tonearn again. The tracking force is correct.

it isn’t nearly as bright as I expected it to be. I had to turn up my default volume a couple notches, turn down the bass, and turn up the treble to get it close to where I think it should be.

The thing is, it sounds good, but it just sounds a little off. It’s driving me nuts. I don’t think it’s a matter of realigning the cartridge or VTA.

Any ideas? Am I just being neurotic? Does anyone have experience with the VMN40ML stylus?
 
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I have both carts (the 440 and the 540). The 40ML stylus is now the current replacement for the 440 cart. They do sound different. you may want to procure a test tone freq sweep record and playback the tones to see what the differences are.
Have you let the new stylus break in?
 
I don't think alignment will make a difference to the bass/treble sound balance but VTA will. However, as the 440MLb and 540ML styli are of such a similar design, I wouldn't expect this to be an issue either. Bear in the mind that the 540ML has a recommended tracking force of 2g compared with 1.4g for the 440MLb. You may find that it's a break-in issue - it may open up after a few hours of use.
 
They sound different because there are small differences in construction and design. VTF is notably different. Realigning won't change the frequency response.

Usually people have the opposite complaint that OP has. It would be helpful to know what the cartridge loading is but with a mass market receiver that could be difficult since specs aren't usually listed.

At any rate, without a good test LP OP is flying blind and there isn't a good solution for them. Was this stereo system sitting unused for awhile? Just curious.
 
mcgjohn said:
I have both carts (the 440 and the 540). The 40ML stylus is now the current replacement for the 440 cart. They do sound different. you may want to procure a test tone freq sweep record and playback the tones to see what the differences are.
Have you let the new stylus break in?
Click to expand...
No. Only played an hour or two so far. But what surprised me was I expected it to be really bright, almost, harsh, like the original 440 stylus was. But it’s just not, in a way that seems just a tad too “not bright.”
 
Crab33 said:
I don't think alignment will make a difference to the bass/treble sound balance but VTA will. However, as the 440MLb and 540ML styli are of such a similar design, I wouldn't expect this to be an issue either. Bear in the mind that the 540ML has a recommended tracking force of 2g compared with 1.4g for the 440MLb. You may find that it's a break-in issue - it may open up after a few hours of use.
Click to expand...
That’s what I’m hoping. But it seems it should be the other way around. As in, the highs should settle down rather than open up.
 
Nop
patient_ot said:
They sound different because there are small differences in construction and design. VTF is notably different. Realigning won't change the frequency response.

Usually people have the opposite complaint that OP has. It would be helpful to know what the cartridge loading is but with a mass market receiver that could be difficult since specs aren't usually listed.

At any rate, without a good test LP OP is flying blind and there isn't a good solution for them. Was this stereo system sitting unused for awhile? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Nope. The whole system gets regular use, 1-3 hours per week. Receiver is Onkyo TX-NR636.
 
Another possibility is the stylus SRA may be different. The cantilevers are also quite different, and the platform angle the stylus is mounted to may be different.
 
ripblade said:
Another possibility is the stylus SRA may be different. The cantilevers are also quite different, and the platform angle the stylus is mounted to may be different.
Click to expand...

I thought that might be the case too. I’m not sure how to raise the mount on my Thorens 402 DD. I haven’t been able to mess with it much since I’m currently traveling.
 
Well if you compare the cartridge specs of the 440 to the 540, they are different.

440:
Coil impedance = 3.2K
Coil inductance = 490 mh

540"
Coil Impedance = 2.7k
Coil Induction = 460 mh

The stylus assemblies might be interchangeable, but their load characteristics are not. Therefore a 540 stylus should not be used in a 440 body.
 
WaynerN said:
Well if you compare the cartridge specs of the 440 to the 540, they are different.

440:
Coil impedance = 3.2K
Coil inductance = 490 mh

540"
Coil Impedance = 2.7k
Coil Induction = 460 mh

The stylus assemblies might be interchangeable, but their load characteristics are not. Therefore a 540 stylus should not be used in a 440 body.
Click to expand...

I think 540ML is different from the 40ML. I have the 40.
 
several stylus tips will fit on the 440MLb cart. you can even use a Shibata tip which will give you greater top end detail.

The VM540 through 700 series carts all have interchangeable tips.
 
WaynerN said:
The stylus assemblies might be interchangeable, but their load characteristics are not. Therefore a 540 stylus should not be used in a 440 body.
Click to expand...
Curious to know what the reasoning behind this is? Loading is dependant on the coil inductance, not the magnets. The cantilevers are different, yes, but not by enough to alter resonance significantly, I don't think.
 
ripblade said:
Curious to know what the reasoning behind this is? Loading is dependant on the coil inductance, not the magnets. The cantilevers are different, yes, but not by enough to alter resonance significantly, I don't think.
Click to expand...

Inductance and resistance are almost the same IIRC. Without measurements we don't know for sure w/r/t the cantilevers. OP is not able to do measurements and is using a built in preamp on an avr. Not much we can do to help without relevant info.

Fwiw I have also seen these AVRs malfunction, things stop working, or the user hits a button that switches on some weird processing, etc. Lots of possibilities here.
 
The ATN440MLb is the replacement for the AT440MLb.

I run a ATN150MLX stylus on my AT440MLa body. The specs for the 150's cartridge has coil impedance at 2300 ohms and the induction at 450mh. That combination does not produce the same sound as the normal ATN440MLa stylus in the AT440MLa body. The output is less, doesn't sound like the response is flat. However, Its still OK combination, and its the only way I can use up the 150 stylus (not going to buy the 150 body).

If such mis-matches were the norm, then one would think that AT would use the same coil config across the product line, but they don't. I use the shibata on my 440 body, but the cartridge bodies for both have the same specs, in fact I believe they are the same body in every way.
 
WaynerN said:
The ATN440MLb is the replacement for the AT440MLb.

I run a ATN150MLX stylus on my AT440MLa body. The specs for the 150's cartridge has coil impedance at 2300 ohms and the induction at 450mh. That combination does not produce the same sound as the normal ATN440MLa stylus in the AT440MLa body. The output is less, doesn't sound like the response is flat. However, Its still OK combination, and its the only way I can use up the 150 stylus (not going to buy the 150 body).

If such mis-matches were the norm, then one would think that AT would use the same coil config across the product line, but they don't. I use the shibata on my 440 body, but the cartridge bodies for both have the same specs, in fact I believe they are the same body in every way.
Click to expand...

So, you’re saying the stark difference is to be expected?
 
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