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Official Kef LS50 owners thread
- Thread starter canuckaudiog
- Start date
RGA
Super Member
Yes but that is not what owners on forums seem to be saying.And you can also sit lower in your chair and or higher in your chair too. So rather than him spending a bunch of money on a new stand and trying to sell his current stands why not sit in a high chair first to see if it works. Stand resale value is practically worthless. I don't think it is a big enough difference anyway - if it sounds incredibly bright on axis it isn't going to be warm and lush 10 degrees off axis. Pretty crappy speakers if that's the case. and since I own the speaker - it isn't the case - the sound is fairly similar at ear or a little above or below ear level - different yes night and day no.
RGA
Super Member
Not really but it's important to figure out where you are getting the information. When people start they read "reviews" - great but that is less helpful than identifying what you actually like from what you don't like and to do that you need experience and to get that you have to listen.
I used to be a B&W guy who was planning to buy em and an amplifier from the likes of Krell/Bryston/Levinson, Celeste (now Sim Audio), Arcam etc. Indeed, I had a B&W/Arcam system. I lacked experience - the reviews were good so I could feel good about regurgitating on various forums.
But everything gets good reviews and I have news for you not everyone at a magazine likes the same things (you can tell that by what they buy).
So Joe walks into a store and likes B&W's pretty looks and goes online or to a magazine rack and they reviews are glowing - wow must be great failing to account for the fact that B&W is a massive speaker maker that sends products out to publications everywhere and sends them to recording studios in return for advertising (our speaker is used at Abbey Roads). Never mind that the actual RE doesn't like B&W! (See Bob Hodus)
Art Dudley and Michael Fremer (Stereophile) hardly agree on what constitutes the correct path to music reproduction so if you like what Mikey likes you may not like what Art likes (although not all that many people have spent real time with Shindo while plenty have heard Musical Fidelity so the lack of experience from the reader may be an issue on the determination).
Reviews are arguably only useful in the following 2 ways:
1) You pay attention to the specific reviewer and he/she shares the same likes dislikes as you - although you should still have the experience at listening to the best of the competing tech. Auditioning the $50,000 SS amplifier versus the $1,000 tube is not exactly apples to apples.
2) you cull all reviewers at various different magazines for what they like/own and sort of play a numbers game. More reviewers like XYZ. 2 has problems because again numbers - 20 reviewers may have heard XYZ and all give the speakers a thumbs up - 4/5 stars - good solid sound. Speaker ABC may have had 5 reviewers hear them 4 of them give it 5/5 call it the best in decades but one doesn't like it and gives it 2/5. Ultimately, XYZ may not disappoint but it has not chance to be an enthralling star. The other speaker could possibly disappoint but it has a much better chance of being a lifetime keeper.
I'd rather go with number 1 if both you and they have heard many of the same products and come to many of the same conclusions. For me on our staff it would be Jack Roberts. While I don't necessarily agree with him on his ultimate choices his choices would rank very highly. Kind of like when Ebert and Siskel were in sync on best picture winners. Siskel would have one movie 7th on his ten best list and Ebert would rank it 2nd. But the film made both final lists which means it's probably very good indeed (assuming you generally were on board with the two critics).
The Devore Orangutan and Teresonic Ingenium would rank very high on my list. My next speaker will like be a new E. Jack likes the other two better in his living space. So maybe he ranks them 1) Teresonic, 2) Orangutan, 3) AN E. My list would be the exact reversal. But you could live with any of them and it depends on the room so Jack is the guy I read most. I also read Fred more because it's nice to dream about the stuff I can't afford and at those prices he usually picks winners.
Conversely, I don't share a similar ear to John Atkinson - I used to mind you but I lacked experience. I was comparing far too many similar products. I like X more than Y but never tried Z and a decade later I leared that Z was so VASTLY better than X and Y that X and Y became so "similar" and so not worth my time and effort that they kind of morphed into one letter.
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ultralight
Member
As a neophyte (still), that just had the 'brand new' sticker come off a few months ago, I find that reviews are helpful in that they identify for me some of the systems I should consider. Without reviews, I would most likely have never tried the LS50 which I had in home along with four other highly rated speakers to A/B. I wouldn't know where to start.
Also, without reviews such as RGA's (one example among many), I would probably have never found out about Line Magnetic which now undergirds my LS50. I am currently listening to some Asian recordings and it is just a breathtaking combo for my budget.
So though I do learn to read reviews with a grain of salt (based on my deeper understanding of other industries' reviewers), I do appreciate that they do give me a general starting point.
UL
Also, without reviews such as RGA's (one example among many), I would probably have never found out about Line Magnetic which now undergirds my LS50. I am currently listening to some Asian recordings and it is just a breathtaking combo for my budget.
So though I do learn to read reviews with a grain of salt (based on my deeper understanding of other industries' reviewers), I do appreciate that they do give me a general starting point.
UL
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RDSChicago
Well-Known Member
Which Line Magnetic amp are you using with the LS50's? I imagine the 501 at 100wpc would authoritatively drive them. The 219, while low in wattage, is supposed to be very capable of driving speakers much easier than its 24 watts or so would indicate. I am guessing it is one of these two, or perhaps the 518? Richard, how do you compare the 219 to the 518 and which would sound better with the LS50's in your opinion?
RGA
Super Member
Good question. Interestingly, as a reviewer we often wind up going against our own goals. I did not buy the KEF for the 219. So I can't say how the 518 would sound with the KEF.
I bought the KEF as a reference point when conducting reviews. I find that most reviewers own esoteric tough to audition speakers. KEF is sold in most every major market so I can use them a tool. Speaker abc has nicer treble or better bass or isn't as refined as the kef. That sort of thing.
I also needed a speaker that measures quite well so when I like a speaker that perhaps does not I can sight the importance or lack thereof of the measurements.
I had a suspicion the 219 would be fine because the drove the big ATC speakers with such ease. I did not much care for ATC until I heard them with 219. I suspected this might be true with KEF. I ME over the years a good SET with ballsy power has made a lot of lower efficient speakers sound much better.
My preference is for SET but I do like the push pull amps from LM as well. Just use the 4 ohm tap and they should all be fine. If you have the money the 219 is the best one though which is why I bought it. Dual mono has no crosstalk issues. Biggest and baddest transformers.
I bought the KEF as a reference point when conducting reviews. I find that most reviewers own esoteric tough to audition speakers. KEF is sold in most every major market so I can use them a tool. Speaker abc has nicer treble or better bass or isn't as refined as the kef. That sort of thing.
I also needed a speaker that measures quite well so when I like a speaker that perhaps does not I can sight the importance or lack thereof of the measurements.
I had a suspicion the 219 would be fine because the drove the big ATC speakers with such ease. I did not much care for ATC until I heard them with 219. I suspected this might be true with KEF. I ME over the years a good SET with ballsy power has made a lot of lower efficient speakers sound much better.
My preference is for SET but I do like the push pull amps from LM as well. Just use the 4 ohm tap and they should all be fine. If you have the money the 219 is the best one though which is why I bought it. Dual mono has no crosstalk issues. Biggest and baddest transformers.
Well I picked up the dynaudio focus 160 for a home audition to compare to the kef ls50. They are very authoritative. The have a lot more bass. And they fill my large room.
However they did not fix my bright treble problem.
The same recordings I have been stressing over for being bright were bright with the 160's, not as bright but bright. So it's my room or my source that has been giving me problems.
Now back to the bass of the 160's, it was impressive for a bookshelf. But it was a bit boomy compared to the kefs. The kefs were much more natural. In a head to head I was surprised how much I liked the kefs. Even though they have a harder time trying to fill my large room they were full of clarity and detail. I am new to hifi so I did not appreciate the kefs until I was able to get a good comparison in my own home with my own music. Still learning about hifi and I want to thank you all for all the help so far.
However they did not fix my bright treble problem.
The same recordings I have been stressing over for being bright were bright with the 160's, not as bright but bright. So it's my room or my source that has been giving me problems.
Now back to the bass of the 160's, it was impressive for a bookshelf. But it was a bit boomy compared to the kefs. The kefs were much more natural. In a head to head I was surprised how much I liked the kefs. Even though they have a harder time trying to fill my large room they were full of clarity and detail. I am new to hifi so I did not appreciate the kefs until I was able to get a good comparison in my own home with my own music. Still learning about hifi and I want to thank you all for all the help so far.
RDSChicago
Well-Known Member
I have a feeling you will like a great floorstanding speaker. Why don't you try the Kef R700s or R900s? They will have all of the base you like in the Dynaudio and the clarity in the mid and upper ranges of the LS 50s.
Would love floorstanders. But I have a cat that would love a new scratching post.
Welcome to the trial and error learning system of becoming an audiophile
I recommend giving us a photo and layout of the room and a list of equipment and cables being used
But generally moving speakers 1m from rear and 1m from side walls and moving your sofa 1m from rear wall and a rug in front of speakers
Speaker stands below ear level and place something under front edge of speaker to slightly raise it
Speakers cone center pointed at your ears and then start rotating them left to right listening for the sweetspot
Listen like that for a couple of weeks
Then slowly(over weeks) move speakers closer or farther from walls
Buy or borrow some cables and replace only one(not right and left)
Try that for a day and then put the old one back and then repeat
Choose the one you like
Next try another cable and so on
The difference between one cable and another is slight but you will hear it
I have never bought megabucks cables but shop around
I made friends with an Audio shop owner and EVERYTIME I buy something first and ask questions and he lends me a cable for demo. Today is Thorens Silver RCA-Balanced
X is better than Y , maybe , but everyone has their own opinion
Learn to trust your ears and learn what you like and dont like
Good luck
Robert
I recommend giving us a photo and layout of the room and a list of equipment and cables being used
But generally moving speakers 1m from rear and 1m from side walls and moving your sofa 1m from rear wall and a rug in front of speakers
Speaker stands below ear level and place something under front edge of speaker to slightly raise it
Speakers cone center pointed at your ears and then start rotating them left to right listening for the sweetspot
Listen like that for a couple of weeks
Then slowly(over weeks) move speakers closer or farther from walls
Buy or borrow some cables and replace only one(not right and left)
Try that for a day and then put the old one back and then repeat
Choose the one you like
Next try another cable and so on
The difference between one cable and another is slight but you will hear it
I have never bought megabucks cables but shop around
I made friends with an Audio shop owner and EVERYTIME I buy something first and ask questions and he lends me a cable for demo. Today is Thorens Silver RCA-Balanced
X is better than Y , maybe , but everyone has their own opinion
Learn to trust your ears and learn what you like and dont like
Good luck
Robert
ultralight
Member
There are many good to excellent systems out there.
The LS50 was by far, the least impressive right off the bat out of five systems. But my wife spotted its naturalness right away. Took more time for me. But after a while, we realized that the LS50 had the most natural tone and colored the music the least, AND communicated the very subtle timbre the best.
UL
The LS50 was by far, the least impressive right off the bat out of five systems. But my wife spotted its naturalness right away. Took more time for me. But after a while, we realized that the LS50 had the most natural tone and colored the music the least, AND communicated the very subtle timbre the best.
UL
Make sure all your cables are properly shielded, RFI will make a system bright. And hopefully your room isn't full of glass.
Here's something you could try, for very little $$$. Buy a new or better yet a used Behringer DEQ2496 and use it as a DAC and system EQ. Later if you want to keep it in the system, a higher quality DAC can be added downstream. Or you could check out the MiniDSP products, which are also reasonably priced. I've read of a Sqeezebox EQ plug-in, but haven't investigated.
Don't use the EQ for bass enhancement, just to tweak down the treble output. Later you can go through all the other motions and get to the point where you can pull out the EQ if desired. I've been able to tweak my treble with just horizontal and vertical toe-in adjustments, but still use EQ for my subs.
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RGA
Super Member
Ok here is another suggestion - headphones. In any system you need to identify what is causing the problems - the system, room, or the recording.
So what you want to do is take your recording and listen to them on headphones that are deemed to definitely not be bright - I would recommend the Sennheiser HD 580 or 600 not the 590 (the 650 or 800 maybe) or the top or near top models Audio Technica and AKG. Possibly Grado but some find some models bright.
Headphones take the room out of the equation because there is no room influence at all. If the music is still bright - it isn't because of the room and it's not because of the KEF or your stereo.
Some recordings are bright - period and they can't be fixed. The things that could fix them will screw up other recordings that didn't need to be altered. Just demo a set someplace - don't buy them.
PS - the KEF LS-50 is not designed for a large room - small speakers in large rooms tend to sound thin bright. These speakers are nearfield for small room/highly small damped rooms and for small studio usage. Big room needs big speakers.
So what you want to do is take your recording and listen to them on headphones that are deemed to definitely not be bright - I would recommend the Sennheiser HD 580 or 600 not the 590 (the 650 or 800 maybe) or the top or near top models Audio Technica and AKG. Possibly Grado but some find some models bright.
Headphones take the room out of the equation because there is no room influence at all. If the music is still bright - it isn't because of the room and it's not because of the KEF or your stereo.
Some recordings are bright - period and they can't be fixed. The things that could fix them will screw up other recordings that didn't need to be altered. Just demo a set someplace - don't buy them.
PS - the KEF LS-50 is not designed for a large room - small speakers in large rooms tend to sound thin bright. These speakers are nearfield for small room/highly small damped rooms and for small studio usage. Big room needs big speakers.
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slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
Mi Man!........You've got the KEF's and you had the Rouge, and now you're thinking about other speakers and another amp. You've said you are a beginner and it shows by the mistakes you are making. You would have been best served by educating your self before spending a single dime.
I hope you aren't losing any loot? I'll give you that much credit that you aren't. How long did you have the amp before you took it back? Chances are your problems are in other areas other than the gear. You are also asking for help here where you are going to get hit with all sorts of answers making things much more confusing and harder than need be. Truth be told, this aint rocket science. Get yourself some place and read and educate your self in audio systems. What you need is to learn about synergy and sound signatures. I've PM'd you some reading materials.
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I haven't lost any money yet except 60 dollars shipping. I was happy making mistakes and learning. And most here have been more than helpful. But it looks like I may be wearing out my welcome. Sorry all.
slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
Come on man...don't be overly sensitive now...you're not wearing out your welcome. And 60 bucks is music you could have purchased. Just trying to give you the easiest road to take. If you like being hit with answers from all directions then have at it...but the easiest way is to read about audio. Learn what your up against, and you will be happy you did later.
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
Don't sweat it - you aren't wearing it out at all. Keep at it, you're definitely learning from this.
Can you describe your room environment or better yet, take some pictures? Do you have any musical instruments in there? Glass of any kind like a tv stand, coffee table or big windows without any blinds?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Like i said before if we all liked the same thing everyone would own the same gear. Just because many here like the the LS50 that does not mean you will or should. You also might be chasing your tail trying to like the speakers, i had 20k in associated gear when i had them, my friend who i bought them from had over 70k in gear and we both found them as you describe, and since then i have also heard them at audio shows and several dealers all of the time with the same results. I think that your trying too hard to like them, there are many excellent and what i consider better speakers in the same price range. This is supposed to be fun check out some other speakers.