Okay, what are the true HI-FI speakers

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geode

geode

F4 Phantom Seat Jockey
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I'm really into the vintage equipment. There are many vintage speakers that are classified by the listeners as being good to great. But, are there any vintage speakers that can be classified as true HI-FI speakers. Moreover, what would define a speaker as being HI-FI.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fidelity

And there's the rub. As technological advances raise the bar on faithful reproduction of the performance, what was earlier considered Hi-Fi fails to meet the advancing standards, and very few vintage speakers comply without modification.

Many vintage favorites are notoriously inaccurate. Among the list under compilation already here, Voice of the Theater, for example, fails miserably....
 
Zilch said:
And there's the rub. As technological advances raise the bar on faithful reproduction of the performance, what was earlier considered Hi-Fi fails to meet the advancing standards, and very few vintage speakers comply without modification....
Click to expand...

Ah, but the official definition of what is vintage, ruminations regarding applying the "vintage" label only to "classics" aside, is any item over 25 years of age. Thus the beginning of what is vintage falls into late 1982, which just so happens to be in the middle window of a lot of new technology.

What speakers came before 1982 that could qualify? The massive four-column Infinity IRS came out in 1980 and that's still considered an industry reference today. The larger Infinity models from the Quantum series and RS (RS 2.5 and RS 4.5 being from 1979) series could be placed in a show room today and hold their own very well against the newest offerings. The QRS with its contemporary modifications is still considered state of the art in sound quality. The Tannoy HPD drivers of the late '70s are represented in Tannoy's current TOTL models of the Prestige series with only very slight modifications (slightly higher power handling, a non-rotting surround, slightly more open basket, and the rest are cosmetic changes). The large Magnepan Tympanis starting in 1973 are still fantastic speakers and the later revisions (still before 1982) have been directly compared and favorably so to the MG-20/Rs. Dr. West's Sound Lab full-range electrostatic speakers started to come out before the end of that time frame and still make a good showing for themselves and even then were praised for outperforming the Quads in every way. Boston Acoustic's speaker design seems to have been reborn in the $100k+ Audio Note offerings. The Klipschorn is still found in a special place in the hearts of many audio enthusiasts and that's been around for fifty years. The larger Fourier Systems speakers came out before this time and are still compared favorably to the B&W 800 series. Even the Wilson WAMM, the only Wilson everyone agrees to being impressed with and only just recently discontinued in its seventh iteration, came out in 1980. Then if you look at Japan, they were experimenting with revolutionary designs. For instance, the Pioneer S-F1 could be seen as the inspiration of the recently released Cabasse La Sphere.

The list can go on, but I think you get the idea.

Basically, one you go beyond the mass market offerings to the top line models from the late '70s to very early '80s, you will find many models that could be placed in modern audio show rooms and perform very well. In fact, one could conclude that most of the modern offerings are just re-envisionings of these vintage designs.

Zilch said:
Many vintage favorites are notoriously inaccurate. Among the list under compilation already here, Voice of the Theater, for example, fails miserably....
Click to expand...
Being a former VOTT owner, I concur.

- JP
 
Excellent analysis, JP.

Clearly, many specific "leading edge" designs from earlier times stand up well under contemporary scrutiny, as they incorporated significant advances in technology.

I found it interesting in the Wikipedia article that the term "Hi-Fi" has become so diluted over time as to mean, generically, and disparagingly, early mid-fi consumer gear, now the universal fare of thrift stores and flea markets, without regard to absolute fidelity standards.

"Hi-Fi" has thus come to mean, as a class, that nostalgic stuff which USED to be high fidelity, but now, no longer is.

What comes to mind is an Aristocrat with 12TRXB in it, as example. Do we like it? Well, certainly. Is it high fidelity anymore? No, alas, but it IS most worthily, "Vintage...."
 
I have been writing about this before here on AK, there is a great error in the understanding on the term Hi-Fi, this is powered by the marketing departments. They have ever since the creation of the Hi-Fi standard (DIN 45500) used the therm as a "power word" telling the world how great there gear was since it was coverd by the Hi-Fi standard.

The Hi-Fi standard is and was NOT a standard for high quality, even in creating the standard the high-end part of the industry argued for higher standards but as every thing involving politics the final standard ended up as standard everybody was coverd by and were able to vote for, also the low-end makers. In simple words the standard only sayes that a Hi-Fi unit shall be cabele of reproducing the sound from 20-20.000Hz in a reconaiseble way, NOT in an acurate way!

So what did the Hi-Fi standard do?; It created some standards on how to meshure the performance of a Hi-Fi unit and this way it created a platform where it is possible to compair the technical performance of 2 units. Only it did not demand that any of the specs for a unit to be published, you only have to be abel to prove the minimum specs to the standardisation board then you were allowed to use the Hi-Fi brand.

About the link to Wikipedia, the info there is acctually not coreckt!
Here a rather large error:
"The term was most widely used in this strict sense in the 1950s and 1960s; in subsequent decades, the term was applied more loosely to any mid-level stereo system."
The standard was not created before appril 1966, so how can they have used it in the 50's and early 60's.

The standard was updated a coupple of times, 01-1973, 03-1987 and finaly the EN 61305-3 replaced parts of the old DIN 45500. The new standard do to my understanding only change the way to meshere the gear.

So even to this day you can buy a clockradio witch rightfully is marked Hi-Fi.

----EDIT----

I want to point out that the them High-Fidelity was used in the 50's, but this is not Hi-Fi. Hi-Fi is a product definition defined by DIN 45500.
 
My opinions- subject to change, disbelief, self doubt, modification, arguement, agreement, ect.

I'll argue ADS L1230s.

I've already said Dahlquist DQ-10s.
Yamaha NS-1000s.

Various Mageplanars.

Carver amazings.

A gaggle of upper-end Infinitys.

Older Vandersteens.

Older Thiels.

Newer Vandies and Thiels continue the tradition, but I doubt one would be mistaken enough to call the newer models vintage.
 
I throw in a bid for Altec's higher end stuff using horns. Like the Model 1Xs. I know my 14s disappear from the room acoustically when listening.
 
Yup - that's my list too :)

thedelihaus said:
My opinions- subject to change, disbelief, self doubt, modification, arguement, agreement, ect.

I'll argue ADS L1230s.

I've already said Dahlquist DQ-10s.
Yamaha NS-1000s.

Various Mageplanars.

Carver amazings.

A gaggle of upper-end Infinitys.

Older Vandersteens.

Older Thiels.

Newer Vandies and Thiels continue the tradition, but I doubt one would be mistaken enough to call the newer models vintage.
Click to expand...

Agree 100% - do I have them or want them? Not really - they are for true audiophile folks who have not lost 30% of their upper range hearing from years of diesel engines, racing, etc. I live quite happily with upper mid level gear and am having a ball playing with that :banana:
 
Zilch said:
Many vintage favorites are notoriously inaccurate. Among the list under compilation already here, Voice of the Theater, for example, fails miserably....
Click to expand...
FWIW, I wonder if this is true in the setting of a theater. A huge room full of people seated in rows, with a giant screen between the L and R and midrange-heavy early tube amps could act to make the VOTTs sound correct, while in the average listening room, they sound colored.

People's hearing hasn't improved over the years. If anything, it's gotten worse, as noise pollution and lack of access to live music has reduced the average person's abilities to discern accurate from non. So, when a product was widely praised back in the day as having great sound, I tend to think it's likely that was correct. They didn't have the ability to quantify and measure, so they designed with their ears, but the best products from the vintage era often seem to measure fairly well today. Mediocre stuff from then is truly awful today... and so is modern junk.

Sorry for the ramble, I just hate seeing stuff dismissed so easily when it's evaluated far from its original purpose and operating conditions... I'm old myself, ok?
 
Lots of good gear out thare that some may or may not consider good enough to make on this list.

There's gotta be some Klipsch fans- I imagine some great Klipsches were made.

Plenty of Altec/Lansing and JBL stuff that's retained it's value. Gotta be a few jems in there.

I personally love my Boston Acoustics A150s and A200s. I don't think everyone would say they were true hi-fi, but I love them enough to keep 'em along with my L1230s, Dahlquist DQ-10s, and others, and consider them very good.
 
I will add Klipschorns, LaScalla's (controversial), My wonderful Vandersteen Model 4's. I consider many to actually be HI FI, High Fifelity or whatever. These are the ones I have owned and listened to.
 
No one who's listened to a pair of (e.g.) Altec A-5s or A-7s with a quality source and amplification would ever dismiss them.
 
When I had mine in this huge vaulted cedar paneled log home,my VOTT's had a sound I have never heard before,or since we moved from that home. Maybe it was the size of the room,all that wood for resonance or my ears were 20 years younger,but they blew me and many,many friends into nirvana. The dogs HATED them.

They still sound beautiful. But,I am DYING to hear some really good 'whatever-they-are's', so tell me,what are they? I HAVE to know. I want to know. I NEED to hear them,who they are....I'm just dying to hear something better. I honestly really want to know. It has been a fascination of mine for 25 years or more.

Maybe I should have sold them to that guy with the grand in his pocket....I just felt they didn't owe me any money. Well,they didn't. $100 in Wyoming for the big green beauties with all the original paperwork. It was the first time a pawner had no idea what was in that giant cabinet on wheels with quilted naugahyde on the outside. I transferred them into the original DIY cabinets my 58's came in,walnut with that brown scratchy upholstery with the metallic threads running through it. A month ago some guy wanted them really bad for that grand...please tell me what I should go listening to. I HAVE to know. I am secretly glad I didn't sell them. My elderly Mother was NOT. hee!
 
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