Phono sections

D

doverfish

Active Member
Ok, let's see if I can make sense.

I have three amps. My trusty Pioneer SX-3600 (35wpc), my Technics SA-424 (45wpc) and a newer (80's) Kenwood KA-95 (150? wpc).

I hate the sound of the Kenwood both with phono and other inputs. It is very powerful and produces sharper detail than the other two, but I get listening fatigue very quickly. The phono stage is the worst. I can enjoy a CD on this amp, but vinyl is out of the question.

The Technics is a "New-old stock" amp I got this week. It was part of a re-possessed electronics distributor and was never opened. At first, the amp sounded quite harsh, so I let it play for about 72 hours before passing judgment. The Technics produces the sharp detail of the Kenwood, but the phono stage is what some might describe as "lifeless". In fact, I thought I was crazy at first, but the Technics allows more pop's and sizzles from the vinyl than the other two amps. How can this be? I think the Technics is good enough that it will make an awesome amp for a CD based system with some nice bookshelf speakers. (Hey, a new amp for $20--how can I complain?)

Finally, the Pioneer. The SX-3600 is the least powerful, but after two weeks of listening to the others, it was sweet relief to plug my TT back into the Pioneer. The sound was "lush". Less detail, but not pops and fizzles and records had that soft cushy feel of '70's vinyl.

So here is the question. So many people say you should start with the speakers in any system--then buy the components. How can you do that when the amp changes so much? These days audiophiles have to buy a separate outboard phono stage for their amp, so maybe today's amps are neutral and the choice come down to phono stage.

Now I can't help but wonder if my Pioneer has only wet my appetite for a Marantz receiver. So many on AK gush about the vintage Marantz sound....
 
Register to hide this ad
If you have some elctronics knowledge and ability you may be able to upgrade the phone stage for fairly cheap and see if that helps.
 
Let the technics "run in" some more on phono. The caps are still sleepy after the long nap~
 
Split the difference and find a Yamaha and keep your detail and smooth sound. Or, find an older Sansui.
 
One of the most important aspect of phono response is the effect of loading on the cartridge, mainly the capacitance of the input of the phono preamp and the cables.

Another point to consider is the overload level, which varies greatly from one amplifier to another.
 
If you like the sound of the Pioneer, try to find a SX-3800. A couple steps up from the SX-3600, but miles of difference performance wise. The phono section in the SX-3800 is one of the best I've ever heard, a background like black velvet, very articulate with a lush, full sound. Throw in 60 conservative watts of Pioneer Non Switching amplification and you've got a winner.
 
Listening fatigue may be caused by a distortion that is not being consciously heard. Since it occurs on several of the inputs, from what I read and interpreted, may want to put a scope on it and see the output. The 150 wpc would almost have to be a class b output that may not have enough biasing current. You can likely find a service manual and just check the bias voltage across the biasing check resistor if a scope is not available.
 
bigaltx24 said:
If you like the sound of the Pioneer, try to find a SX-3800. A couple steps up from the SX-3600, but miles of difference performance wise. The phono section in the SX-3800 is one of the best I've ever heard, a background like black velvet, very articulate with a lush, full sound. Throw in 60 conservative watts of Pioneer Non Switching amplification and you've got a winner.
Click to expand...

This si exactly the kind of description I was trying to convey to my wife when she came home and I told here I had switched back to the Pioneer. I kept saying the bass was smoother without a loss in detail....

I think your advice about the SX-3800 is right on because I do have to push the 3600 a little on my speakers. I listen at 4/10 and the peak meter starts to spike. The Technics at 45wpc cruised the same volume at 2/10. I'll start looking for a SX-3800...
 
ryuuoh said:
Let the technics "run in" some more on phono. The caps are still sleepy after the long nap~
Click to expand...


I agree..I know after only 72 hours I am not being completely fair to the Technics. I am a little intrigued by its "New Class A" circuitry. The guys at Audio Atlanta said Technics played a little fast and loose with the marketing, and that their Class A label was an exaggeration..... Still, it produces very sharp sound and I will keep it around until I get a decent CD player to listen to on it.
 
doverfish said:
Still have not heard the Yamaha "natural sound"-another reason to keep collecting. Got a recommendation from the 70's-early 80's?
Click to expand...

The gold standard is a CA-1000 "inter-grated". There is no one better piece of vintage gear than that. A CA-1010 is in the same league, as is a Sansui AU-9XXX, but the CA-1000
is it.
 
I'm not familiar with any of the amps you've ;isted so I don't know if you have the option to try a pre-amp out to a different power section, but if that option is viable, try every combination you have. You say you don't like the Kenwood but see if it is the pre or power or both.

Then try a Luxman.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom