Pilot SA-260 rebuild help.

JoNate

Member
Hi, I am hoping to get some help here.

I have a Pilot SA-260 that needs work. Since I purchased this amp, it has had a lot of hiss to it (not matter the speaker) and absolutely no defined image. The image seems to be off to the right and very blurry. I last used in December and one of the tubes started glowing super bright and I could smell an electrical burn. I of course unplugged it as soon as I could

I took some photos, it’s had work before. Maybe someone can tell me what direction I need to head into. I was thinking of buying all new parts, off the schematic, and just doing a refresh. A power switch would be cool and I Hate the speaker terminals.

Thank you, fingers crossed.
 

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Perhaps, I should add. That I want to out quality parts into her. If I can add to its sound quality, that’s the route I want to go.

Also, I have never rebuilt an amp. However, a long long time ago, I have repaired industrial generators.
 
Hi, I am hoping to get some help here.

I have a Pilot SA-260 that needs work. Since I purchased this amp, it has had a lot of hiss to it (not matter the speaker) and absolutely no defined image. The image seems to be off to the right and very blurry. I last used in December and one of the tubes started glowing super bright and I could smell an electrical burn. I of course unplugged it as soon as I could

I took some photos, it’s had work before. Maybe someone can tell me what direction I need to head into. I was thinking of buying all new parts, off the schematic, and just doing a refresh. A power switch would be cool and I Hate the speaker terminals.

Thank you, fingers crossed.
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Someone (tech) apparently replaced this main filter cap can in the mid to late 1980s (1986, 49th-week stamp on the can). You are going to need to replace all of the cans. That would be a good starting point. So maybe start sourcing those cans and other axial electrolytic caps in the unit. :idea:

After that, check for the correct fuse, ramp up the amp, and start checking voltages.

If you decide to proceed, take lots of photos. That keeps the restoration process on the rails. :)

Good luck!
 
... I want to out quality parts into her. If I can add to its sound quality, that’s the route I want to go.
Also, I have never rebuilt an amp. However, a long long time ago, I have repaired industrial generators.
Nice amp!
I agree with your interest in a quality rehab. This amp deserves it. I bet it will sound great!
And your description indicates that it is in need of some work.
Are you interested in learning & doing it yourself? You got any tools? variac, DMM, solder gun, etc?
This one will take some work, but certainly doable. I would not jump into buying parts just yet. I would use your variac, dim bulb tester, bring it up slowly & get some measurement. Certainly check the resistors. I am a little surprised that the electrolytics have been replaced but you still have all carbon resistors. I can't tell from here but those 2x top cans may not be in use.
 
I would also consider moving at least one of those cans underneath to the location on top where the silver one is. Lots of heat in these things. That big brown resistor connected to the one gets toasty hot, and being connected like that it dumps heat right into the cap. I used a chassis mounted one in mine and landed the wire at the end of a terminal strip, with another wire from that point to the first cap. The heat goes into the chassis instead of just baking all of the parts right around it, and its isolated from the caps by 6" or so of wire. That entire area on mine is very obviously toasted from the old resistor, the transformer leads are very brittle. The char marks on yours are pretty obvious as well.

I had to replace the bias and balance pots in mine. the originals would randomly drop out when adjusting and the tubes would lose bias. I did not re-design the bias network to make it fail-safe but at some point I plan to get in there and do that. I've got a schematic somewhere from @dcgillespie that includes that as part of the tweaks. I think your pots may have been replaced, at least they don't look as crusty as mine did. At a bare minimum they need a good cleaning.

something else I did was to remove the old rivets that are used as bias test points and install tip jacks. Makes it easier to set things, just plug the test probes in and make adjustments rather than trying to hold two probes onto two different rivets at once with one hand while using a screwdriver in the other hand.

Many (most) of the carbon resistors in mine were off-value. Honestly I'd probably suggest changing all of them, or at least measure. That screws up performance and they tend to be very noisy as well.

Power switch is easy, depending on what you want to do. I removed one of the aux outlets and installed a slide switch that fit the hole and existing screws. Its not my favorite type of power switch but it was minimally invasive and required no modifications to the amp chassis. The bad thing is I have to reach around the back of the amp to turn it on.

Speaker terminals are common for the era. One of mine was broken and now its got a set of dual binding posts in that opening. Also done without any mods to the chassis beyond drilling out the rivets that held the old terminal board. I connected my jacks to the 8 ohm terminal. The 16 ohm lead needs to be landed somewhere inside though since the feedback connects to it. Thats the resistor with the small cap on it going from the 16 ohm terminal to the single terminal strip with the yellow wire on it. I think I mounted a single terminal strip on each side using a screw through one of the old rivet holes to land the 16 ohm transformer lead on, and the resistor ran from that spot.

These are nice amps, but they honestly suck to work on. Very cramped and the layout doesn't help any.
 
Looks like newer coupling caps have been installed. The red plating probably came from either a fail in the bias circuit or a loose connection in the tube socket. You can clean the socket contacts with contact cleaner and a small inter-dental brush from the pharmacy. The socket contacts can also be tightened with a sharp pointed instrument like an ice pick or some other tool. Get some Caig Faderlube to clean the bias pots. As @gadget73 mentions above, the bias circuit can also be "fail proof" by adding a resistor to each potentiometer such that if the wiper goes open circuit, the bias will fail to max negative voltage and keep the tube from red plating. If you work on the bias supply, be aware that it is a negative voltage and any electrolytic caps need to be positive terminal grounded.
 
I just had a refresher look at that network and one resistor per pot won't fix it like it will on most. Not terribly hard to change, just have to move where the bias pot lives. I was thinking the balance pot could cause the same grief, but it won't. If it loses contact it just goes more negative so no harm to the tubes.


the load of the balance pots would make a resistor less than say half the pot value not work right, and a resistor that low across the pot would make the pot not work right.

however if you switch the position of the pots and the 68k resistor and take the bias output from the junction of a fixed resistor and the pot to ground, a failure of the pot goes full negative. I'd have to noodle out the voltages and resistance values needed but its not a terribly complex modification.

1717434329770.png

basically you'd have a fixed resistor at R1 and R3. R50 goes away and is replaced with the pair of pots to ground. Might have to do something with R49 too since changing the load through either bias pot would change voltage drop across that, and affect the other channel. Splitting that into two and having two caps doing C4's job would fix it too.

also I have to take back what I said about the feedback. It actually comes off the 8 ohm, so the 16 ohm lead can just be secured somewhere.
 
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I'd strongly recommend an Authenticap can for the rebuild. They're tough and will handle up 600VDC surge, which that amp will come very close to seeing with the 5U4s. You can use the 30uF section as the first cap without any penalty, I think. The bias supply caps will have to be separate, since you won't find a reverse-polarity can these days.


Alternatively, have Hayseed Hamfest build you new can caps to spec. That's a lovely amp and it will sound terrific when you get it restored.
 
Everyone, thank you so much for the responses. I am excited to hear what she can really do. This will take sometime, I have never repaired or built and amp before.
I just looked through my tools and I cannot find my volt meter, bummer. I have no clue where it may be. Could you recommend me a few? Maybe good, better, best?

I have a variac in my cart as well.
 
Just be sure you get one rated for 1000 volts.
.......can you expand on this a bit? Is this for safety or for ability to measure higher voltages?
I got 2x Fluke 115's @ 600V. I do not knowingly work at home on equipment >600V, but I recognize **** happens & would truly like to avoid high voltage.
Could you recommend me a few? Maybe good, better, best?
Make sure you get some leads w/clips (e.g., digikey pomona minigrabbers).
I also like having more than 1x DMM. Makes things go a little faster & safer.
 
depends what you are working on. I have a pair of amps that run 700 on the plate, so having a meter that can show me 1kv is important.
 
Hi guys, this project is still alive. I am in hvac and we are underwater all summer and well, it’s still ac weather down here. However, I am getting restless at getting this one back-up. Thank you for all the help, she will live again.

Side note: I reached out to Don Sachs at the same time I posted here and he gave me a lot of good information too. I can share if you like.
 
which one? I see 4, two can caps that do not appear connected and a pair of film caps.
I’m sorry, I thought I posted this picture: 1731891551142.jpeg

The cap above the one circled in red is connected. I believe it is that cap that leaked onto to bottom cover.
 
the one with all the ugly solder on the terminals at the top of the pic is connected? From this angle it looks like it was unhooked.



They're all old and due for replacement honestly so it doesn't matter a whole lot. Just for space reasons I'd replace them with newer versions of the original caps. There just isn't a lot of space inside of these amps.
 
the one with all the ugly solder on the terminals at the top of the pic is connected? From this angle it looks like it was unhooked.



They're all old and due for replacement honestly so it doesn't matter a whole lot. Just for space reasons I'd replace them with newer versions of the original caps. There just isn't a lot of space inside of these amps.
Yes, I thought it was too.

Speaking of the tight space. If I built a wooden “base” for the amp to sit on, would that help to put in larger/nicer caps? Theoretically, I could then put the cover on the bottom of that or create a new one.
 
maybe but even width wise you'd be jamming things in between all the other crap in there. I'm not into fancy nonsense capacitors anyway. Any polypropylene film cap will do the trick just fine. Mine is currently running a set of 1970s vintage Arco caps that are basically just blue versions of an orange drop and its got two Soviet era K42Y PIO caps at the input. Filter caps are just modern production parts, nothing exotic at all and it sounds quite fine. The Arco caps were already there when I got it. The Soviet caps I installed to replace whatever someone had installed at the input jacks that fit poorly.

also you'd loose the shielding with a wooden spacer in the mix so it may end up being noisier.
 
I think that my order of operations would be to acquire a good schematic, like a Sam's photo fact, then I'd start clipping out all of the mods while drawing up a schematic "as wired" comparing the parts and their values to what is on the schematic.
You should be able to parse out in your head how things were wired, and try and put them back that way when you do eventually build it.

While you're working through the schematic, start building a parts list.
I wouldn't hesitate to replace all of the caps and resistors in this amp. Identify all of them, value, wattage, and composition, then replace them with good modern ones from Mouser.

Personally, I'd completely gut it of all components and rewire the whole amp.
I don't do that with everything that crosses my bench but this is really nice and has been hacked on previously, so I'd put my attention into doing it right and just rebuild the whole unit from the ground up...

Good luck. It looks like a real nice specimen.
 
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