Pioneer PL-L800 DIED, help?? No life at all from a like-new unit.

Figit090

Figit090

Member
UPDATED, with video: Fixed Pioneer PL-L800 No life at all from a like-new unit

UPDATE:
As some posters know already I fixed this turntable by re-soldering and adding some solder to the joints on transistors. They heat-cycled and caused cracks to the solder causing intermittent power failures and eventually, total failure.

See post #18 for a link to a video of the unit in action playing some Chuck Mangione: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=6710053&postcount=18

Here's the video if you don't want to click around: http://vimeo.com/64416887

Thank you ALL for the help in fixing this turntable, it came down to fiddling with things but the assistance and positive comments helped a lot. I'm very happy to have my record player back again!!!

Original post below:
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I am not sure what happened but one day my Pioneer PL-L800 turntable stopped working, the power would cut, no lights, and if I gave the front a little smack it would sometimes come back on, but it took some doing, and eventually it quit. I'm lead to believe it's the power button switch because of this, but I'm not sure. This turntable was taken care of and doesn't even have significant dust inside, so I strongly desire to fix it.
Is there a common failure point that I should check? The worst I have found inside was carbon on the posts of the bridge rectifiers on the power circuit board, and another forum suggests this as normal and not a common failure point.
I also found some of the wires that come to/from the transformer look charred as well, they are spun around posts on the power circuit board and some look darker and almost black, while most are shiny wire.

I thought perhaps the voltage selector was in the wrong position and fried something, maybe it was on 110v, instead of 120v, but even then I doubt that would kill a circuit.
I did test the posts soldered to the power cable and they are hot, so the power cable didn't break.

Any tips greatly appreciated, this turntable sounded and worked great and looks new, but doesn't work at all now! It even has a nice Shure type IV cartridge, a nice surprise when I brought the thing home in it's original box, for $15 dollars. I started my LP collection and then this happened and I haven't listened to one in over a year or two!

I'm going to go look closer at the power switch and see how that works. I'm guessing that could be my problem so I'll pull it and lubricate/clean it if I can, but any tips are greatly appreciated. Pics will be posted if it will help!
 
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You could try jumping the wires connected to the power switch. Also, check to ensure that you're getting juice from the transformer.

John
 
Seriously doubt switch, probably minor problem otherwise. Post pix and go cautiously as one bad mistake will kill it.
 
thanks to both of you, I'll try and get pics up soon.

Any obvious things to watch for so I don't kill it?
 
OK, here are some images of what I'm working with. It looks like possibly some capacitors have been replaced. I also noticed permanent marker which to me suggests that this unit has been worked on before..perhaps circuit tracing or notations for repairs.:scratch2:

(at least I think they are capacitors but I'm not an electrician I just learn cautiously as I go, I did see the 50v and 20v caps on the power board and I'm careful of those, I looked for DC charge after plugging in but found less than 4v on the big one...perhaps I did something wrong).

Descriptions come above their respective photos:

Most of the power setup:
DSC_0518_zps170fdcc5.jpg



Power board, sorry I missed focus and didn't notice until upload:

DSC_0523_zpsac10b251.jpg



These three blue parts (caps I think) on the controller circuitry board (under the buttons on the face of the player) look like they have been soldered with different solder than the factory, and maybe other nearby parts, I'll have to check if anything is suspect:

DSC_0526_zpsb93039ca.jpg


Here is an image of wires leading from the voltage selector switch, the ones on the right are covered in what appears to be carbon dust? Perhaps electromagnetic charge is attracting dust from the interior of the unit, maybe from the tone arm track?

I also noticed lots of similar black carbon completely covering the posts of the bridge rectifiers next to the large blue capacitor (black cylinders)
DSC_0521_zps3400c587.jpg


More carbon on the pioneer chip, what gives? (closest pins are covered in spikes of carbon like you'd see stuck to a magnet)

DSC_0530_zpsf43b707b.jpg



The wires from the transformer had carbon, I'm starting to think the main powered circuits are just collecting dust, these posts did register a small AC current, around 30 volts or something, but there is power when testing neg and pos to either pair of red or orange leads from the transformer:

DSC_0520_zpsbc424e71.jpg





Less important, does this look like factory flux job? it's everywhere on some of the green boards, but the soldering looks uniform enough:

DSC_0531_zps8d298755.jpg


I hope these help and are acceptable size and organization, I haven't been here long enough to know what people prefer.
 
That all looks pretty normal, and I kinda doubt it's been redone (I could be wrong). Those caps look pretty standard for that era. Marked components isn't a big deal -- that could've been done in the factory. And the voltage rating on the caps lists a maximum voltage value, not what's going to be coming out of the cap itself (certainly not when it's not in use).

If you're getting nothing, it's something in the power supply section, and a failed capacitor and/or a failed solder joint are the most likely culprits.
 
am not sure what happened but one day my Pioneer PL-L800 turntable stopped working, the power would cut, no lights, and if I gave the front a little smack it would sometimes come back on, but it took some doing, and eventually it quit. I'm lead to believe it's the power button switch because of this, but I'm not sure.

My PL-1000 did the exact same thing. I use move it slightly and it would come back on.

Paging Ed in TX
 
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OK...well bittersweet moment here. Plugged it in and started fiddling with parts using a poking stick and all of a sudden, fast flickering from the LED's on the indicator/control board.
I thought the switch was the culprit because jiggling the wires connected to it seemed to possibly affect the blinking seen in the LED's but the flickering was fast and I couldn't quite tell.

Is it possible a failing capacitor would release spurts of power or weak power to cause this sort of blinking as it tries to charge, and eventually works as normal afterward (with potential to fail at any moment of course), given time to warm up or something?

The blinking has stopped and now switching the player circuits on gives me solid LED's every time, and I cannot find any part or wire that is loose to cause a short/open circuit. I tested the caps while the unit was plugged in and turned on, and the large 50v gave me about 55v DC, and the 25v cap gave me near that as well. I didn't check anything else.

I'll leave it unplugged for a few hours, and see if it shows the same blinking when power is applied, which given my limited knowledge may reveal a part that is failing but works if given a chance to "charge" or "warm up"...

Related question: what are caps used for in this instance? I am a photographer and I know caps are used to throw a strong burst of energy when needed (flash bulb) but I have no idea how they are triggered, or why a record player would need a jolt of 50v rather than a constant application of power. CRT degaussing coils and flashbulbs sure, but why this?
 
Figit090 said:
Related question: what are caps used for in this instance? I am a photographer and I know caps are used to throw a strong burst of energy when needed (flash bulb) but I have no idea how they are triggered, or why a record player would need a jolt of 50v rather than a constant application of power. CRT degaussing coils and flashbulbs sure, but why this?
Click to expand...

I am no electronic tech-but the basic idea in audio circuits, is to have a clean DC voltage present at the correct voltage, where needed. Capacitors filter AC and pass DC.

There-that's about all I know :sigh:
 
Figit090 said:
OK...well bittersweet moment here. Plugged it in and started fiddling with parts using a poking stick and all of a sudden, fast flickering from the LED's on the indicator/control board.
I thought the switch was the culprit because jiggling the wires connected to it seemed to possibly affect the blinking seen in the LED's but the flickering was fast and I couldn't quite tell.

Is it possible a failing capacitor would release spurts of power or weak power to cause this sort of blinking as it tries to charge, and eventually works as normal afterward (with potential to fail at any moment of course), given time to warm up or something?

The blinking has stopped and now switching the player circuits on gives me solid LED's every time, and I cannot find any part or wire that is loose to cause a short/open circuit. I tested the caps while the unit was plugged in and turned on, and the large 50v gave me about 55v DC, and the 25v cap gave me near that as well. I didn't check anything else.

I'll leave it unplugged for a few hours, and see if it shows the same blinking when power is applied, which given my limited knowledge may reveal a part that is failing but works if given a chance to "charge" or "warm up"...

Related question: what are caps used for in this instance? I am a photographer and I know caps are used to throw a strong burst of energy when needed (flash bulb) but I have no idea how they are triggered, or why a record player would need a jolt of 50v rather than a constant application of power. CRT degaussing coils and flashbulbs sure, but why this?
Click to expand...

You are only looking at caps in your particular application - charging up quickly, then discharging quickly to fire a flash bulb. In power supplies, AC power at 120 Hz (double line frequency) is rectified to a pulsating DC which rises and falls with the frequency. To smooth that out, the capacitor is placed so that it charges quickly but discharges relatively slowly to the frequency - thus it "fills in" the troughs that occur right after the peak voltages, allowing the voltages to remain more level and stable than without them. Additionally, voltage regulators are circuits which take the incoming voltages, and smooth them further at the expense of a small bit of that voltage (say a smooth 15V from about 18 pulsing volts.) Caps play a role there too in allowing the DC voltages to pass and AC to be bled off depending on frequency when placed correctly.
 
Cool, thanks to you both for the cap info, and thanks to you all for the help!

I FIXED the problem! Turns out it WAS a loose solder joint(s) on one, possibly two transistors on the power circuitry. I plugged in the unit and again working fine, but then when I screwed the circuit boards back down for testing the player was dead again, until I poked the silver heat sink in the top of this image:

DSC_0523_zpsac10b251.jpg



There wasn't much solder on the three pins, and I noticed a visible crack, so I took my next to non-existent soldering skills and dropped some extra solder and re-melted the joint. I did the same on the other transistor with the large black heatsink just encase, since it had the same small amount of solder.

Workin' like a champ now! First record I played was Mike Post's Theme to Magnum P.I.

I have to say, I'm very very happy. Thank you all so much!!

I'd post pics of the fix but my soldering on those SUPER tiny spaces really..doesn't look great. It took some doing to do the 6 posts with a basic soldering iron. Learned as I went that I couldn't use the tip as it wasn't hot enough, once I started heating from the middle of the pencil-tip iron it went better.

I'd like to learn more about soldering before I attempt any more electronics work though, hahaha!

Thanks again everyone!
 
What you may have lacked in soldering was made up by perseverance, mechanical aptitude (taking apart and putting back together a turntable is not for the faint of heart), and good troubleshooting skills.

Congrats on the repair, lets see a pic of the unit playing! :thmbsp:
 
For the record, any component on a ckt board that gets hot like power transistors and current carrying resistors (usually the larger ones) will heat-cycle the solder pad connections as did happen here and these pad connections are thus amongst the usual early suspects in cases of intermittent function.
 
mech986 said:
What you may have lacked in soldering was made up by perseverance, mechanical aptitude (taking apart and putting back together a turntable is not for the faint of heart), and good troubleshooting skills.

Congrats on the repair, lets see a pic of the unit playing! :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

Thank you! It's nice to hear those things, I appreciate it. I've always been fond of fixing things, and I do all that I can myself, on my car, camera parts, electronics...anything. If I don't know I teach myself!:music:
I'll get a picture or video up soon, my camera gear is at my parent's house and the record player is now here with me and my rack system, but rest assured I'll post something!

boreas said:
Congratulations!
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Pio1980 said:
For the record, any component on a ckt board that gets hot like power transistors and current carrying resistors (usually the larger ones) will heat-cycle the solder pad connections as did happen here and these pad connections are thus amongst the usual early suspects in cases of intermittent function.
Click to expand...

That definitely seems to be the case, and seems to be possibly why xbox 360's get the red ring of death. I have one of those torn apart waiting for new thermal compound, that's my next project after I replace the door lock actuators in my mom's van. (can you tell I like to fix things?)

bangsezmax said:
Awesome! It's awfully rewarding fixing broken stuff, isn't it?
Click to expand...

YES it is, I just fixed the window in my Supra, one of the horizonal stabilizers broke it's track bushing and basically dumped half the window, so I had to pull the door apart to put it back on track. sadly there was nothing I could do to make it like-new short of new parts, but I did get it working again. I'd been unable to roll my window down for over a year, and finally got fed up! I've fixed so much on the silly car...never buy an 80's sportscar unless you're SURE it's a peach, or you're prepared to pay dearly in money, tears, and time. :D

jleon92f said:
Feels good right! Good Job! Post a picture of the tt playing some tunes..
Thanks,
John.:music::D
Click to expand...

Thank you! Sure does, I've been unlucky trying to fix a teac v-8060 amplifier, but now I might get in there and try again. The receiver went into protect and there are hot burn marks around some main transistors, not surprisingly the same part that caused an issue here. I figure they fried though, and there may be other problems...not sure. I can't remember what was obvious, but I do remember not wanting to bother considering time and effort compared to buying a newer, better receiver that either is higher end stereo or has proper amps for ALL surround channels. This one was nice in stereo and muddy and fake in surround channels, so it left things to be desired; I'd rather have a proper stereo amp (do now) or a proper surround amp, not something that teases me with poor decoding and low wattage if I use those channels.

Someday perhaps when I have more time I'll repair it, but for now I have my Technics rack system that I scored at a yard sale, and it's got plenty of oomph, and a nice 70's/80's look to it that I care much more for than some mid level receivers. :)

Now I'm going to put on a record, and enjoy for a bit....
 
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jleon92f said:
Feels good right! Good Job! Post a picture of the tt playing some tunes..
Thanks,
John.:music::D
Click to expand...

OK, here's a video! Sorry it took so long, I've been dealing with a lot lately (stupid ebay :no:) and my business is keeping my busy as well. :yes:

The video is five minutes so feel free to skip around. Sadly I had to cut the tune short so please listen to the full song on youtube if you feel let down when I cut it short.:music:
My DSLR's mic didn't do half bad though, so enjoy:

http://vimeo.com/64416887


Info on my setup, let me know what you think!

SHURE V15 Type IV stylus (sounds beautiful)
Speakers: Venturi DV-62b made by B.I.C America
Receiver: Technics SU-V98
EQ: Technics SH-8017

I have some ADS L520's at my other home but for space savings and no need for extra volume I chose to bring these smaller Venturi speakers with me.
 
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