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Please help me choose a 1st TT
- Thread starter droggo
- Start date
The Technics would be my choice also, and it's not even close.
The quartz-locked version would be preferable, but there's nothing wrong with the older servo versions. The older model simply requires you look at the strobe occasionally and fiddle with the speed adjust controls if need be. In my experience, older (non quartz locked) direct drives are fine performers.
There's a fellow here who owns and likes the AT-LP120. It's basically a less refined 'knock off' of the Technics SL-1200. One advantage the AT-LP120 offers is 78 rpm capability and variable pitch control. Not sure if you anticipate getting into 78s? (I assumed not when I responded earlier in this thread.)
JonL
Lunatic Member
Yup! Just like a T4P!
John
What's a T4P?
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
Absolutely.
Yes.
Resembles an SL1200 but a 1200 it is not. The 1200 is far superior.
quadjoe
New Member
I'm going to weigh in on the Technics as well. I own a SL-1200MK2 (it's just two years old), and it is a great turntable. The 1800 will serve you well. The AT table, while it is cosmetically similar to the Technics, is no where near it in terms of build quality or performance. BTW, I'm a new poster to AK, though I've been reading on the site quite a bit.
Thanks for all of the great information...and the kindness! Like I said, I'm a newb and did not expect the technics to be such a universal preference so I'm very glad I decided to join/post here. The fully automatic-ness of the B&O sounds nice but maybe it's more beneficial to get experience with all of the settings on the sl-1800.
with turntables, does it basically come down to the cartridge/stylus? if so, wouldn't the B&O sound a lot better?
@cactuscowboy - 78's would be fun. it would be nice to have a reason to collect them but I don't think that it will impact my decision too much. in fact, i think i have ruled out the AT as of now.
with turntables, does it basically come down to the cartridge/stylus? if so, wouldn't the B&O sound a lot better?
@cactuscowboy - 78's would be fun. it would be nice to have a reason to collect them but I don't think that it will impact my decision too much. in fact, i think i have ruled out the AT as of now.
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thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
That would be like saying "With cars, does it basically come down to type of gas and tires?"
As to I'd offer up a nice Chevy Corvette and Chevy Chevette, as to suggest, not really.
Cart/stylus is just one piece of the puzzle.
The B&O has a great cart on it- the MC20EN.
But, you could buy a $3,400 Koetsu for the Technics if you wanted.
What cart is on the Technics?
For under $200, you could buy a pretty kick-ass cart for the Technics.
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
P-mount.
John
I should add here that I have absolutely nothing against B&O or, for that matter, P-mounts. It's simply that JonL's selling points for the B&O are precisely what the engineers had in mind when they developed the T4P standard.
John
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
It should be pointed out that B&O is completely out of all aspects of the turntable business. The cartridges that are available are made by SoundSmith and, while quite good, will eventually become too insignificant a sideline for them, just as they did for B&O. As B&O turntables continue to die without new examples from Denmark to replace them the market for replacement cartridges will dwindle to insignificance. It just won't pay to make them, at least not at a price anyone would be willing to fork over.
That's the curse of marrying yourself to what has to be regarded as an obsolete standard. Far better, in my opinion, to go with the standard(s) that have been adopted by the industry as a whole.
John
thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
True, accurate, and agreed with.:yes:
JonL
Lunatic Member
SoundSmith is a very small company. I've been to their facility. I couldn't say for sure, but I would guess that B&O replacement cartridges are a very significant part of their business... perhaps it's even their bread and butter that allows them to build their other cartridges, most of which seem to really be modifications to and extensions of their B&O compatible designs. I can't see them ever stopping making the B&O stuff as long as they remain in business. And that is the real risk, IMO. SoundSmith is small, and I don't know if they will continue to exist once Peter Lederman moves on for one reason or another... hopefully not for many years.
Otherwise I don't really disagree with the comments, but as with the ubiquitous "expensive cartridge" comments, I think they are all overstated. After all, the OP is asking about his FIRST table, not his "forever" table. I'll be sad if and when my B&O tables are no longer practical to own, but at that point I'll just move on to something different. I may want to move on before that anyway for other reasons... like I come into money and can afford to take a big leap up the food chain.
As for the P mount... Yes, it's always been obvious that B&O was way ahead of the curve on that, though I think their proprietary system has big advantages over the regular P mount stuff. Since B&O engineered the entire system (table, arm, and cartridge) and didn't make any low-end crap, they were able to make a really good cartridge optimized for their low mass arms. P mount stuff was used on a lot of crap, and even though the goal of simplicity was a good one, I imagine the need to accommodate the BPC tables within the P mount specification put some limitations on the cartridge makers. Are there any really excellent P mount cartridges out there? (Serious question... I don't know anything about them really.)
Anyway, I just feel that the usual reasons given to avoid B&O tables are way overstated. They can be a very good choice for people for the reasons I've already stated, but it does come down to personal preference.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
My point is, if you play well cared for records of recent vintage on the B&O, it is a good turntable. If you love older records or need a more rugged pickup cartridge with stylus options or even multiple cartridges, B&O is less good. If a Technics has issues, it's simpler to repair, needs less upkeep, has many cartridge options, and is more likely to grow with you. I know several folks who mothballed or sold their B&O tables when B&O discontinued making cartridges. SoundSmith's replacements are equal and in some cases superior to B&O originals. But I dislike proprietary cartridge systems. And B&O stylus suspensions are among the most delicate. I've seen NOS cartridges from them with dead channels. With the Technics you can spend as little as $30 on a cartridge when your budget is low or over $5000 on a Koetsu on the extreme end. Versatility is good!
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Yes, I think B&O was ahead of the curve in a lot of ways and I doubt that it would be a loser to bet that the engineers on the T4P project were influenced by B&O.
I've always been a huge fan of Danish design, and Scandinavian design generally so I'm predisposed to liking B&O and I do. One day I'll have another B&O table. (My first experience with one was unhappy, but only through my own stupidity.) Maybe it will be a tangential modified to accept a P-mount.
Other than the modded B&Os and a number of other tangentials, I can only think of one really good series of turntables that utilized the T4P cartridge (but not the whole system). It was a Technics SL-M(x) series. They had adjustable anti-skate and VTF. One of them, the SL-MA1, had a removable headshell that could be interchanged with one for a 1/2" mount cartridge.
John
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The obvious solution is to buy both the B&O and the Technics.
Couldn't have said it better myself. :thmbsp:
iLUVanalog
Addicted Member
The only problem with the B&O is that their cartridges are proprietary...you can't use any other brand but theirs....and replacing them will no doubt be expensive.
PickyEars81
Super Member
Yes.
There are a lot of other factors besides the cartridge which impact sound reproduction quality from vinyl.
I would get the technics, for all of the reasons already stated on this thread.