Power bar surge suppressor with vintage audio?

ssouci

ssouci

Well-Known Member
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Is it OK to use a surge suppressor (ie., fancy power bar) with vintage Marantz receivers?

I'm considering this Tripp-Lite model (link below), however have read online that these might NOT be good to use with audio amps/equipment due to the noise filtration they employ which somehow negatively impacts sound

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=825&txtModelID=111

I have both a 2230 and 2275 Marantz receiver, and would use this unit to plug these receivers in -- plus my DVD/CD player, plasma TV, wireless modem, PVR, and a lamp

also, seems that these Tripp-Lites have several sets of isolated filter banks, with *varying* levels of noise supression... what equipment would go where for best results?

if using one of these is a no-no, what is the best way to plug my equipment in? (cost is a consideration, I'd like to keep under $100)

thanks!
 
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I haven't had any issue running vintage equipment on this sort of filter/bar. I'd be careful with inexpensive "PC Battery backup" types, as they often dont' have the current rating to handle a big ol receiver.

Something like you link to though should be A-ok!
 
looks like a good unit to me.
I have used all sorts of line conditioners down to simple plug strips with no problem.
The unit you mentioned is filtering out the high voltage short duration spikes on the AC power line. A good thing for electronics
Your Marantz have nice big power transformers that do a fair job for whacking spikes and caps across power switches to whack the spikes they make when you turn them off.
The other stuff you listed is more spike sensitive.
I use at a minimum MOVs on any outlet I plug electronics into. If you are not familiar with house wiring, that is not a place to go.

I definitely second redcoats7 warning on the PC Battery backup itty bitties.
 
As I understand it, a surge supressor strip like that doesn't really do anything until it's hit with a voltage spike in the line. They do not put out any noise as they are not actively doing anything in normal operation.

The Monster is a whole different animal. I don't have any experience with it. It seems pricey, as most Monster stuff is. Awhile back there was a real deal posted at AK for a nice unit like that for $99. Forget who made it. That was a close-out price, so not something you'll find every day, but $300 seems like a lot for the average stereo. If you have $10,000 worth of gear, maybe it's not that much.

You might search AK for threads on power conditioners for some discussion and thoughts.
 
I can get the Monster 1800 new for $100 on super sale, and also a good used "Furman pl-plus power conditioner"... not sure which would be better ???
 
A motor/generator produces the cleanest AC power, hands down. That would be pretty anal-retentive, however. A good electrostatic shielded transformer and line chokes with gas discharge tube and MOVs should be sufficient for all but the dirtiest power.

If your transients and regulation are THAT bad you might just want to relocate. Houses are cheaper than some of these "designer" devices.
 
I own a pro-audio company, as well as an extensive collection of vintage audio gear. I use Furman or Monster products on all of my equipment, both pro and home. Furman has been the industry standard in pro-audio/studios for decades. Monster is newer to the game, but a great product... at least the pro units that I use. Power strips are just surge protectors and do not filter out interference, power conditioners do. In addition, most power conditioners have dedicated outlets for high current demand items like amps/receivers, so draw is not that much of an issue.
 
ssouci said:
I can get the Monster 1800 new for $100 on super sale, and also a good used "Furman pl-plus power conditioner"... not sure which would be better ???
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Where in those Monster specs are numbers that say what advertising only claims subjectively? Numbers for the Monster manual say it does what a $12 power strip in Walmart also does. But then Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling an equivalent product at much higher prices.

Tripplite filtering is 40 to 80 dBs at what frequency? It does not provide dBs/decade. Can be virtually zero at the frequencies that carry power. That near zero filter is sufficient for advertising to claim total filtering. Meanwhile, the Monster does not claim any filtering. Better is to not provide any numbers when the filtering is near zero. Since most consumers strongly recommend on subjective claims - not on hard facts defined by numbers.

Power strips are essentially a direct connection to AC mains. Will install near zero filtering so that it can claim 100% filters in advertising. Superior filtering is already inside vintage amps such as Marantz.

Only way to have equal or better filtering is heavy components found in a Brickwall series mode filter. But the cited Brickwall model does not claim to do filtering. Does not claim to be a series mode filter. And also has numbers only equivalent to what sells in Walmart for $12.
 
For what it's worth I use a Middle Atlantic power strip. My main concern is surge protection as we have little micro outages weekly. I think the 915R retails for around $100 though I got a new one on eB*y for $15. It works, is well built and I don't hear any negative effects.
 
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westom said:
Only way to have equal or better filtering is heavy components found in a Brickwall series mode filter. But the cited Brickwall model does not claim to do filtering. Does not claim to be a series mode filter. And also has numbers only equivalent to what sells in Walmart for $12.
Click to expand...

Did you take the time to read the specifications properly ? Lines 4 and 6 list "series surge reactor current limiter" and "EMI/RFI filter response".
 
rlovison said:
For what it's worth I use a Middle Atlantic power strip. My main concern is surge protection as we have little micro outages weekly.
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Put numbers to it. A micro outage is a voltage that drops significantly below 120 volts. A surge protector remains inert until voltage typically exceeds 330 volts. What is a surge protector doing for micro outages? Nothing. Do micro outages harm electronics. Not if electronics are designed. As even required by design standards that existed before 1970.

Hardware protection from micro outages is already inside all electronics.

Why would you hear any negative effects from any power strip - protector or non-protector type? They all connect your electronics directly to AC mains.

Specs for a Middle Atlantic 915R are troubling. Human safety demands a protector be UL 1449 listed (which is different from UL 1419). UL 1449 was created because surge protectors were creating house fires. Another critically important feature (that does exist) is its 15 amp circuit breaker.

All electronics will (should) spec how long it will operate normally when no AC power (ie a micro outage) exists. Some devices (ie computers) are better than others (ie microwave). If an outage is too long, then an electronic device only powers off; without damage. Best protection is already defined by its power supply.

The Middle Atlantic may look good. But what is important is not observable; is best defined by spec numbers.
 
Glen B said:
Did you take the time to read the specifications properly ? Lines 4 and 6 list "series surge reactor current limiter" and "EMI/RFI filter response".
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If the spec has significance, then a number was included. Line 4 makes a subjective claim about some reactor current limiter. That could be anything (ie a fuse, a switch, a light bulb). Worse, not defined by any number. Inventing exotic subjective functions to deceive is not just legal. It is why advertising is so much fun.

EMI/RFI spec has a number. 3 db at 5 khz. One capacitor from Line to Neutral could meet that spec. Electronics including Marantz must already have that and more. Even FCC requirements define it.

Why are numbers important? Most provide no numbers. So that a minority who really know this stuff cannot expose what it really does.

Spec numbers for Brickwall's Series Mode filters define a device sometimes used in recording studios to further reduce line noise. But the cited Brickwall is not that device.

The question was about affecting amp performance. A power strip (with EMI/RFI filter cap) typically connects a Marantz directly to AC mains.

An anomaly must be defined before a solution can be recommended. For example, some anomalies are harmonics, open neutral, sags, power factor, noise, spikes, high voltage, frequency variation, floating ground, etc. Which anomaly must be solved? Which one does that Brickwall address. Which one is a problem for the Marantz?

Most anomalies are made irrelevant by what is already inside a Marantz. Marantz was highly regarded for quality - working fine in the 1970s without any such protection. What suddenly changed?
 
ssouci said:
what do you think about this Furman unit? (I can get one used for ~$100)
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That Furman is a power strip with maybe a line filter equivalent to these:
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogusd/645/2221.pdf

Full retail price is maybe $10 or $20. Those filters (or equivalent) are already inside electronics. How much for a Furman to do filtering that already exists?

It makes a subjective claim of surge protection. Details define protection from a type of surge that typically does no damage. And again, I see no reference to human safety as defined by UL 1449.

No device addresses all anomalies. But advertising invents the expression 'line conditioner' as if it solves all anomalies. They count on a consumer not asking damning questions. And not demanding spec numbers with each claim. Similar noise filtering can be purchased full retail for many times less than what the Furman wants.
 
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westom said:
Put numbers to it. A micro outage is a voltage that drops significantly below 120 volts. A surge protector remains inert until voltage typically exceeds 330 volts. What is a surge protector doing for micro outages? Nothing. Do micro outages harm electronics. Not if electronics are designed. As even required by design standards that existed before 1970.
Click to expand...

We experience frequent short term outages, just long enough to cause my computer to reboot if not connected to a UPS unit. I thought surges sometimes occur when the power returns after an outage. Maybe I'm mistaken.

westom said:
Why would you hear any negative effects from any power strip - protector or non-protector type? They all connect your electronics directly to AC mains.
Click to expand...

I never indicated you would. I just wrote I didn't hear a difference as some on this forum feel they do hear differences.

westom said:
Specs for a Middle Atlantic 915R are troubling. Human safety demands a protector be UL 1449 listed (which is different from UL 1419). UL 1449 was created because surge protectors were creating house fires. Another critically important feature (that does exist) is its 15 amp circuit breaker.
Click to expand...

Good thing we have homeowners insurance.

westom said:
The Middle Atlantic may look good. But what is important is not observable; is best defined by spec numbers.
Click to expand...

Specs can be fudged.
 
rlovison said:
I thought surges sometimes occur when the power returns after an outage.
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Electricity means it turns off, then goes completely negative, then turns off again, and then goes maximum 60 times every second.

If a micro outage causes a surge, then normal electricity causes surges 120 times every seconds.

Micro outage is a threat to unsaved data. A UPS - battery backup - is the solution for that anomaly. Laptops already contain that battery backup.
 
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