PRO Audio SoundTech PA Help!!!

dc270

dc270

Now Off the Reservation
OH man the things I get into.....but here it is. A couple of LARGE cabs, Soundtech brand, 46 x 41 x 21, dual 18", dual 12", dual bullet tweeters and a single 9x8 mid horn- lens like these: ( http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-624 )

I have torn into them and found a Radio Shack 2 way xover for the mid and super tweeters, it had inductors falling off of it, etc. The mid horn 1.5" phragms are blown! The bullet tweeters work! The low end drivers have some other coil and cap config glued down inside, I have yet to rip it out.

I want to rebuild the networks back into a good 4 way. Anybody have a schematic of what might have been. Any idea on what kind of phragms would help too/ The # on the driver is 575224 & co15-16., the vc dia is 1.5" the overall size is 4.25" with the 4 bolt holes on 2" centers.

I could venture a guess at the xover points to be perhaps 500, 1.8k, and 8k. I emailed SoundTech with no results as these are fairly old.

Appreciate any help here.
Thanks DC
 
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575 is Heppner, replacements should be plentiful and easily sourced.

Try Martin Sound Products, www.matrinsoundpro.com , you'll have to register to get into their website which is something new as i haven't been there in a while, and Orange County Speaker as a last resort.
 
i would walk away from those they were not biult well and really didnt sound very good even new. imho of course. i also seem to remember they were real power hogs
 
stereocuuple said:
i would walk away from those they were not biult well and really didnt sound very good even new. imho of course. i also seem to remember they were real power hogs
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I appreciate your advice here. These actually do not look all that bad, construction is typical and the driver are on par with many I have seen in pro audio system. It is just a shame somebody really goobered these up with poor network components. The owner was very surprized and dissapointed with the last company that worked on them! I am as well.

While I am not thrilled having to guess at how to rebuild them, but it is not beyond my abilities to eventually do so. These hold value to the person that asked me to rebuilt them so I respect that and will give them my best effort.
DC
 
DC has been called to duty!:yes:

I'm confident he'll be able to get satisfactory results with these, it may take some serious modding.

Those are a "modular" design based(loosely) on the Claire Brothers M4/S4, probably one of the loudest and at the same time most "hifi" single boxes ever built.

Claire built their own boxes, to a brick shithouse standard, and loaded them with JBL drivers customized for their specific applications. 4 way active set up, originally powered by Claire modified Carver PM2.0's, both the amps and speakers command a premium today when you can find them.

claires4.jpg
 
Bowtie- please tell me what you think of this plan. What I want to do here is make the 18's into a seperate sub application with their own network and own phono jack input. On another seperate phono input put the dual 12's, dual tweeters, and mid horn on a seperate 3 way network. Thus making these a less power hungry and even more flexable!
Thoughts?

NICE M4/S4's!!!
DC
 
dc270 said:
Bowtie- please tell me what you think of this plan. What I want to do here is make the 18's into a seperate sub application with their own network and own phono jack input. On another seperate phono input put the dual 12's, dual tweeters, and mid horn on a seperate 3 way network. Thus making these a less power hungry and even more flexable!
Thoughts?

NICE M4/S4's!!!
DC
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That is how i did the last pair i rebuilt for a friend, those cabs still just don't sound as nice as i think they should though, but better than they did stock.
 
Thanks for the suport there Endspec! I know if they were mine to keep I would certainly brace them up and double the baffle thickness amound a few other improvements!! The owner just wants to get them back in good working order!
DC
 
Back in '88, I took out a $3000 loan and bought two things: my brother's Suzuki (I think it was a '86 GS650ES - Great bike with a neat powerband at 7k) and a small Soundtech PA setup. It was just 2 cabs and a powered-mixer. The cabs had the usually fuzzy, grey, carpeted look with a 12", an 8" (I think), and some kind of horn. Shortly after I got them, my brother bought a new Pioneer receiver (VSX-5300, I think - Same one I bought shortly after that) and a Pioneer CD player, but since he didn't have speakers big enough to handle the 100w per-channel output, he called and asked if I would bring the Soundtech speakers up to his house so he could hear his new toys. I planned on using them with my first band, but one of my bandmates had a better setup, so I told my brother, "Sure, why not?". We hooked the speakers up and tried a CD (Def Leppard's "Hysteria"). Now, I don't know how I would fell about it now, but back then we were all blown-away at how good it sounded. LOUD. I remember all of us being wowed at the clarity and detail, not to mention the dynamics and low-end punch, but I'm pretty-sure that nowadays it would be the sort of sound that I hate (I like a smooth, warm, non-fatiguing sound). I doubt it was something you could listen to for hours and hours, but those speakers were great if you wanted to "wow" people for a little while. Anyway, it was at least a year before I got those things back.
 
the clarity and detail, not to mention the dynamics and low-end punch, but I'm pretty-sure that nowadays it would be the sort of sound that I hate
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Sonic characteristics to be avoided at all cost...? :scratch2:
 
dc270 said:
Bowtie- please tell me what you think of this plan. What I want to do here is make the 18's into a seperate sub application with their own network and own phono jack input. On another seperate phono input put the dual 12's, dual tweeters, and mid horn on a seperate 3 way network. Thus making these a less power hungry and even more flexable!
Thoughts?

NICE M4/S4's!!!
DC
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Might be able to do a switching system along with a single 4-pole Speakon to do that.

Wire it up so that Speakon +1/-1 runs the whole system full range, or for biamp changing the switch to have +1/-1 inputs for the 12"s and up, with the 18"s feed on +2/-2 of the Speakon.
 
For testing purposes, if you can't figure out the crossover points more easily, aren't there external crossovers that look like a small tuner?
 
I am asking him about converting to XLR or even the Speakon config. I think he wants out as cheap as possible and making the convertion may ne more than he will want to spend for now! The replacement pro custom made networks are not going to be cheap!DC
 
Don't use XLR for speaker connections...go with Speakons. They are not very expensive and much better for connections than phone plugs/jacks.
 
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bowtie427ss said:
DC has been called to duty!:yes:

I'm confident he'll be able to get satisfactory results with these, it may take some serious modding.

Those are a "modular" design based(loosely) on the Claire Brothers M4/S4, probably one of the loudest and at the same time most "hifi" single boxes ever built.

Claire built their own boxes, to a brick shithouse standard, and loaded them with JBL drivers customized for their specific applications. 4 way active set up, originally powered by Claire modified Carver PM2.0's, both the amps and speakers command a premium today when you can find them.

claires4.jpg
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i am sorry if i offended any one with my earlier post. the soundtechs arent without thier merits coat the int. with car undercoat i have done this and it was worth it

speakon would also be my advice i happen to have several that i would donate they are used but in near new cond. pm if you want them


as for the CB boxes im old enough to have used those many times those f...ing straight up kill EVs mt cabs. you should hear 16 of those alone it the shop sometime.
 
stereocuuple said:
i am sorry if i offended any one with my earlier post. the soundtechs arent without thier merits coat the int. with car undercoat i have done this and it was worth it

speakon would also be my advice i happen to have several that i would donate they are used but in near new cond. pm if you want them


as for the CB boxes im old enough to have used those many times those f...ing straight up kill EVs mt cabs. you should hear 16 of those alone it the shop sometime.
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Ni problem here, everyone is entitled to their opinion for usually a good reason! I am sure you have yours from previous experience. I see why you should not let just any guy that can twist two wires together work on these things- they sure can funk them up as was the case here!!
DC
 
OK. Arriving late at the party, but here's what I'd be inclined to do:

First off, make them bi-amp. Put the 18" woofers on a separate amp, and wire the 12", horn and supertweeters as a 3-way. Crossover the amps (active) at around 100-150 Hz or so.

For the 3-way- you can actually use a good 2-way crossover at around 2KHz or so, and simply treat the supertweeters as "add-on"... put a small cap (say, .47uf or 1uf or so) in series with them, and parallel that with the mid driver, on the high-out of the 2-way crossover. Be sure and use an L-pad on the mid horn...

This 2-way crossover should work, if the system is used bi-amp:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-142

You probably would want to add a Zobel to the woofer... or, at least have the components handy, in case you need it (if the 12" are "shouty"). Assuming the 12" woofers are both 8 ohms, that would be a 4 ohm composite for the pair... use a 4 ohm, 40 watt resistor (four 16 ohm 10 watt resistors in parallel would be fine) with a 22uf or so cap should be a good starting point, IME...

Oh, BTW: If the woofers have too much high-end output (mid peaky), then you can try using the Dayton crossover with the low-pass in the "8 ohm" setting. This will "lower the Q" of the lowpass crossover, and take probably 1-2 dB or so out of the woofers, above about 1KHz or so. That's the nice thing about this crossovers... OPTIONS for tuning are built in...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
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GordonW said:
OK. Arriving late at the party, but here's what I'd be inclined to do:

First off, make them bi-amp. Put the 18" woofers on a separate amp, and wire the 12", horn and supertweeters as a 3-way. Crossover the amps (active) at around 100-150 Hz or so.

For the 3-way- you can actually use a good 2-way crossover at around 2KHz or so, and simply treat the supertweeters as "add-on"... put a small cap (say, .47uf or 1uf or so) in series with them, and parallel that with the mid driver, on the high-out of the 2-way crossover. Be sure and use an L-pad on the mid horn...

This 2-way crossover should work, if the system is used bi-amp:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-142

You probably would want to add a Zobel to the woofer... or, at least have the components handy, in case you need it (if the 12" are "shouty"). Assuming the 12" woofers are both 8 ohms, that would be a 4 ohm composite for the pair... use a 4 ohm, 40 watt resistor (four 16 ohm 10 watt resistors in parallel would be fine) with a 22uf or so cap should be a good starting point, IME...

Oh, BTW: If the woofers have too much high-end output (mid peaky), then you can try using the Dayton crossover with the low-pass in the "8 ohm" setting. This will "lower the Q" of the lowpass crossover, and take probably 1-2 dB or so out of the woofers, above about 1KHz or so. That's the nice thing about this crossovers... OPTIONS for tuning are built in...

Regards,
Gordon.
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My thoughts exactly! I measured the dcr of the woofers and the 18's are 3.8 ohms and the 12's are like 4.8 ohms so that Dayton network should work out pretty well!! Appreciate you input here Gordon, you realyy helped clairify things.
What is the thinking of people to do something like this by taking out the factory xover and substituting nothing but junk! GRRRRRR.
Thanks again
DC
 
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