Putting a speaker on top of a tower speaker

T

tmho

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I have 7 pairs of speakers but very limited space for them. For more information on the speakers, please see http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...e-help-me-to-rate-the-speakers-i-have.779163/.

Besides giving up a few pairs, I put a pair of book shelf speaker on top of the tower speakers to save space. I guess this may affect the sound quality, is that true? If that is true, will there be some ways to minimize the bad effect (such as adding something between the two speakers)?
 
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The truth is that every pair of unused speakers in a room has a negative effect on the sound. If you must have unused speakers in the room you should at minimum short the input terminals. If you don't believe this connect the terminals of any unused speaker to an Oscilloscope and monitor the signal generated when music is playing.
 
I will guess there will be some nay-nays out there, but I see no reason why that would be an issue. I have speakers upon speakers and I find it a nice combo when they are both running at the same time.
 
KingBubba said:
I will guess there will be some nay-nays out there, but I see no reason why that would be an issue. I have speakers upon speakers and I find it a nice combo when they are both running at the same time.
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I specifically said "unused speakers".

OTOH: Using multiple pairs of different speakers simultaneously causes a bunch of other acoustic anomalies including comb filtering, frequency response aberrations and asymmetrical radiation patterns of the sound field. In addition if the extra speakers are around the room you will effectively kill whatever soundstage you may have. These effects are measurable and easily audible.
 
I've stacked them high, depends on what you are listening to and how fussy you are with the sound. I put the highest speakers in the stack on their sides to get the tweets closer to ear level when I'm standing.
 
It's not uncommon for hi fi stores to have a couple dozen speakers about at any given time while demonstrating only a single pair.

I certainly cannot see what shorting the terminals of unused speakers is going to accomplish.
 
JoeESP9 said:
I specifically said "unused speakers".

OTOH: Using multiple pairs of different speakers simultaneously causes a bunch of other acoustic anomalies including comb filtering, frequency response aberrations and asymmetrical radiation patterns of the sound field. In addition if the extra speakers are around the room you will effectively kill whatever soundstage you may have. These effects are measurable and easily audible.
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What Joe said is true. Unused speakers, along with generating current, sympathetically vibrate and create tones of their own.

BUT . . . I seriously doubt that anybody but the most golden-eared audiophiles would ever notice anything awry. Truth is, everything in a room is vibrating in response to the speakers being played, and we are always hearing that. But our brains compensate and ignore anything that shouldn't be there. Unless the sympathetic vibration is as obnoxious as the buzzing trunk lid on a rap fan's limousine, we simply filter it out. Or enjoy it. Except for trunk lids. ;)

GeeDeeEmm
 
tmho said:
Besides giving up a few pairs, I put a pair of book shelf speaker on top of the tower speakers to save space. I guess this may affect the sound quality, is that true?
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So, you say already have them up there. You've been listening to the system with them up there, disconnected.

As for it affecting the sound, what do your ears tell you? Do your towers sound any different than when they weren't up there?

Basically, it's all mind over matter: If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.
 
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gdmoore28 said:
What Joe said is true. Unused speakers, along with generating current, sympathetically vibrate and create tones of their own.

BUT . . . I seriously doubt that anybody but the most golden-eared audiophiles would ever notice anything awry. Truth is, everything in a room is vibrating in response to the speakers being played, and we are always hearing that. But our brains compensate and ignore anything that shouldn't be there. Unless the sympathetic vibration is as obnoxious as the buzzing trunk lid on a rap fan's limousine, we simply filter it out. Or enjoy it. Except for trunk lids. ;)

GeeDeeEmm
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Please note the OTOH portion of my post. I didn't mention sympathetic vibrations there because driven speakers tend to not vibrate in sympathy. After all they are being driven. That's why I mentioned things such as comb filtering asymmetrical dispersion patterns and soundstage aberrations. I realize not everyone cares as much as I do about a soundstage. I just felt compelled to mention it for those who care about such.

The whole soundstage thing is probably more important to classical fans. Classical recordings generally have a soundstage to reproduce. Pop/Rock recordings generally don't have much in the way of a soundstage because all the studio manipulation means there was never a soundstage to reproduce.
 
When using two sets of speakers, distance and type of speaker is necessary....it's true that with every situation out there, there is someone that's gonna do it. But using two pair of speakers closely together doesn't sound the same as much farther apart. Then the type of speaker when used with large monitors is crucial to reduce detracting influences and a pair direct with a pair of indirect speakers is just one answer to that.
 
62caddy said:
I certainly cannot see what shorting the terminals of unused speakers is going to accomplish.
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Basic electronics 101. It will damp (reduce the movement) of the cones of the unused speakers. The perceived difference in sound quality can vary listener to listener. There certainly can be a difference in the measured acoustic waveform in the listening area.

While the human auditory system is capable of great things, such as filtering out unwanted content and adding missing content is it not the same for everyone. If the net result of this was the same for everyone, then all audio gear would sound the same to everyone.

Timbre.

Timbre is the quality of a musical note that alows us to tell the difference between the same note being played on different instruments. Changes of small fractions of a dB in the relationship of the harmonics of a note to the fundamental and the relationship of the various harmonics to each other can make a perceivable difference to some.
 
After going through the crossover network, I sincerely doubt shorting terminals will have any measurable effect on cone movement, much less acoustical effect on the environment of whatever the movement may have had. And as pointed out earlier, the hundreds of square feet of surface area of the room itself (not to mention furnishings) dwarf that of whatever small area the cones may have - damped or not.

All the same, if there is any credible evidence of any measurable difference between a room full of unused speakers - both with and without their input terminals shorted - I would love to see it. :)
 
Remember that the rest of the acoustic environment is not designed to vibrate a audio frequencies, speakers are.

Each speaker driver will have a resonant frequency, actually a range of frequencies depending on their Q. At resonance the speaker drivers will be the most sensitive to external excitation.

There is no doubt that these changes can be measured. Then the discussion becomes one of the threshold of detectability for each individual.

If room acoustics swamp all small changes, then it might very difficult to tell the difference between similar but different phono cartridges or similar but different phono stages.
 
the skipper said:
So, you say already have them up there. You've been listening to the system with them up there, disconnected.

As for it affecting the sound, what do your ears tell you? Do your towers sound any different than when they weren't up there?

Basically, it's all mind over matter: If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.
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Sorry, I have not tried that. I will try that later and post the result. My ears are not that sensitive, I might expect to see no difference. But I still want to set up the system as good as possible.
 
Joe, I actually wrote my post while you were posting your reply; so my post was in no way directed at you. I knew somewhere in the past I had seen comments about empties in the same room as actives, but remembered nothing about them. I also was not recommending the stacking, yet that is my personal choice. Tmho should now be able to decide because he has heard from all sides or the discussion.

Shorting a pair of unused speakers was something new to me. Thanks for the education.
 
One speaker on top of another speaker? It can be done, I have personally verified. See the below picture of my L300Cs sounding great on top of my big Polks. I did not short the input terminals of the Polks, nor did I operate an oscilloscope. I breathed normally and experienced no perceived loss of sound quality from the little monsters.

tC8CpfNl.jpg
 
gdmoore28 said:
Truth is, everything in a room is vibrating in response to the speakers being played, and we are always hearing that. But our brains compensate and ignore anything that shouldn't be there. Unless the sympathetic vibration is as obnoxious as the buzzing trunk lid on a rap fan's limousine, we simply filter it out. Or enjoy it. Except for trunk lids. ;)

GeeDeeEmm
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I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.
 
I have tried listening to the tower speakers with and without the book shelf speakers on top. It is really hard for me to tell if there is any difference.
 
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