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Radio People /Wharfedale W70
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Brian
An Old Geezer
Does not need to be Russian necessarily of a single 4mfd cap. Mine are US and 2mfd. I bought 4 and had them tested and matched. 1 pair comes in at 4.0 while the other pairing is 3.9. The seller had some 4 mfds but in testing could not come as close to 4 mfd and each other. He also had some 1 mfds but not enough to get 2 4mfds in combo and I did not want run 4 caps in one speaker and 2 in the other of different brands.
I paid I think $10 including shipping for the 4 from the US. They will require a bit of rigging to use but not too much of a Rube Goldberg.
I paid I think $10 including shipping for the 4 from the US. They will require a bit of rigging to use but not too much of a Rube Goldberg.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Yes... Look for the ones that say "KBG"... Those are NOS Russian-made from the '50's. Made exclusively for the KGB. You'll see several different percentage ratings. They have 10% ones and 5% ones. The 5's are the best, very-closely-matched, but the 10's will do if that's all you can find, but try and find the KBG ones for sure.
And yes, you can use a couple of old US-made ones as well. I think the key though, honestly, is to look for oil caps from the PCB era. I guess they sound better than the non-PCB ones in speakers. In my W90's, I have early '60's Sprague 'Clorinol' caps on the mids and mid '50's Sangamo ones on the tweeters (both US-made). Frigging amazing. There are actually several different brands of old, PCB-era 4uF caps on Fleabay now if I recall.
The ones the OP showed are ported, so NOT W70C, right? Aren't the W70C's sealed? That's why it'll be interesting to see which version of the Super 3 tweeter is in there. BOTH versions (alnico or ceramic) are great. Mine are alnico (Mine are also not W70's, they're W90's... Same Super 3 tweeter though). The Super 3 is easily one of the most-underrated tweeters ever made, as are those alnico mids. Smooth as hand-spun silk with tube power, but also good with some warm SS power as well. I was just listening to a Spinners compilation a few minutes ago. I love how these old Wharfies are with music that most people take for granted. That's the stuff they seem to do the most justice.
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Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
That's an excellent match for those (3.9 and 4.0, I mean). Yours will sound like brand new Wharfies when you get them in there. You were 100% right about the poly ones. Once I swapped out the Daytons and put the PIO's in mine, it brought them up to an entirely-different level. Goodbye, glare and hello, amazing sound.
I needed 4 caps for my W90's, so it ended up costing me around $100 with shipping, but so-incredibly-worth it. I need to do the same with my W60's as soon as I can find a good pair of caps. I really need to doublecheck, but I think they're 12uF ones on those Super 5 tweeters (I did see a pair of early W60's that came from the factory with 10uF's, but every other pair I saw came with 12uF's, so I assume that's what's in mine.
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relaximus
Consoles 'Я' Us
G-T is so right. These early to mid-60's Wharfies do not respond well to modern poly caps, they completely alter their characteristics in a truly bad way. Stick with NOS PIO caps, either Russian or sourced elsewhere and you will be truly rewarded. The tweeters in these things are a wonderful thing when fed properly. Smooth, sweet and never harsh with the proper caps. Sure there's a rather pronounced high-end roll off, but I would expect that given the driver. These are such warm, enveloping, dare I say "moist" sounding speakers. They feel like a warm shower and sauna after a day on the slopes. Did I mention I like them just a bit? 
Dave
Dave
Dclapp
Active Member
Better
While I applaud the effort of you guys to improve the sound of your Wharfedales, I have decided not to do that. I have a pair of W 90s and a pair of W 70s and they both sound so awesome that I have no desire to try and improve the sound of either pair. Although I love to (try to) fix, and improve the sound of what I have, I've decided to not "chase the dragon" as they say in the opium smoking business
. With both sets of my Wharfedales, I usually find myself listening to the music and not the speaker – the highest praise I can give.
But I love watching what you guys do – and I agree completely with the oil filled capacitor opinion.
While I applaud the effort of you guys to improve the sound of your Wharfedales, I have decided not to do that. I have a pair of W 90s and a pair of W 70s and they both sound so awesome that I have no desire to try and improve the sound of either pair. Although I love to (try to) fix, and improve the sound of what I have, I've decided to not "chase the dragon" as they say in the opium smoking business
. With both sets of my Wharfedales, I usually find myself listening to the music and not the speaker – the highest praise I can give.But I love watching what you guys do – and I agree completely with the oil filled capacitor opinion.
moebuster
Super Member
to each his own,of course-but the reasoning is to get the drivers back
to at least close to their new/original capabilities.maintainance,if you will.
speaking of W90's-i have a pair with fairly rough cabinets,the trim moulding
across the top has broken missing sections on both -a bit of an eyesore.
regarless i lathered them up with some feed and wax which makes any wood look good again.so i had them in the living room with the back off one looking for the cause of a dead tweeter(tinsel lead off driver binding post was loose)
and the wife says where did those come from-i like them she says.was i surprised because well these things are big anyway i correct the tweet, clean the pots and button them up and play wharever happens to be on the cd changer-Marley Buffalo Soilder i think it was-she says i like these keep them in here.i was actually a little surprised.normally she won't bat an eye at whatever i rotate in and out.
to at least close to their new/original capabilities.maintainance,if you will.
speaking of W90's-i have a pair with fairly rough cabinets,the trim moulding
across the top has broken missing sections on both -a bit of an eyesore.
regarless i lathered them up with some feed and wax which makes any wood look good again.so i had them in the living room with the back off one looking for the cause of a dead tweeter(tinsel lead off driver binding post was loose)
and the wife says where did those come from-i like them she says.was i surprised because well these things are big anyway i correct the tweet, clean the pots and button them up and play wharever happens to be on the cd changer-Marley Buffalo Soilder i think it was-she says i like these keep them in here.i was actually a little surprised.normally she won't bat an eye at whatever i rotate in and out.
While I applaud the effort of you guys to improve the sound of your Wharfedales, I have decided not to do that. I have a pair of W 90s and a pair of W 70s and they both sound so awesome that I have no desire to try and improve the sound of either pair. Although I love to (try to) fix, and improve the sound of what I have, I've decided to not "chase the dragon" as they say in the opium smoking business
But I love watching what you guys do – and I agree completely with the oil filled capacitor opinion.
Brian
An Old Geezer
Hope this does not put me offside regarding the no politics rule. As I read this I said to myself, myself I said. Caps made specifically for the KGB; with all the talk about various governments spying on individuals, companies and each other I wonder why the KGB would need or want special capacitors. Today it is done through hacking computers and imbedding software, I wonder if back then these caps had a special purpose, maybe making sure decadent music or prohibited broadcasts were not listened to.
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satterberg
Active Member
kyle
Super Member
Hopefully you guys are joking about the KGB thing.
There are a variety of excellent Russian caps available and most were military usage. K40Y's are also very good and I like the K72P teflons in some applications. It's like getting JAN tubes and parts from the USA, they're military, not CIA.
There are a variety of excellent Russian caps available and most were military usage. K40Y's are also very good and I like the K72P teflons in some applications. It's like getting JAN tubes and parts from the USA, they're military, not CIA.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
While I applaud the effort of you guys to improve the sound of your Wharfedales, I have decided not to do that. I have a pair of W 90s and a pair of W 70s and they both sound so awesome that I have no desire to try and improve the sound of either pair. Although I love to (try to) fix, and improve the sound of what I have, I've decided to not "chase the dragon" as they say in the opium smoking business
But I love watching what you guys do – and I agree completely with the oil filled capacitor opinion.
I totally get why you would be apprehensive on this. I have a pair of early W60's that I have yet to recap, and they sound great. And the weird thing is, it sounds like the tweeters in them are running full-range, as if the capacitors were simply dead and not blocking any frequencies at all, and yet they sound wonderful. No distortion or issues of any kind. But I think that's just a result of them having such well-made, well-designed drivers. Crestwood23's W90's were the same way prior to recap, and that's how they were when Sony6060 heard them and was raving about them so-much (He was putting them on the level of bi-amped, heavily-modified JBL L300's... He wasn't saying they sounded SIMILAR to L300's, mind you... He was simply putting them at that high level of sound-quality).
But then Crestwood23 bought some nos oil caps and installed them. And he's been raving ever since. When recapped with the RIGHT caps, it really does put them on a whole different level. Smoothes them out even more while simultaneously opening them up and improving the clarity and separation (which was ALREADY great... Remember, when Sony6060 had heard Crestwood23's W90's, they had yet to be recapped, but now they're A LOT better from what I understand). I'm really-finicky when it comes to brightness and speaker-fatigue, and I have had zero issues with any of that after the recap. Nothing but improvements. Zero side effects.
I wish I knew why those drivers hate modern poly caps so much. I thought perhaps it was just an alnico thing, but I really don't know. I mean, I've really only heard this in relation to Wharfies, so perhaps it's a combination of the alnico magnets and the first-order crossover. Or maybe it's just the crossover. Most speakers today seem to have quite-extensive crossovers with modern printed circuit boards and what not, so I can see how the cap-type might not have such an effect, but these old Wharfies have ultra-simple, true first-order crossovers that only use one or two caps per cabinet, so perhaps it's about that rather than the magnet or style of driver. Or perhaps it's a combination of both. Who knows?
Damn snow... It's totally-screwing me up today... Got things to do that I can't get done, and it's only pushing my schedule back further and further (For those who've sent me messages, I apologize... I'm backed-up there as well).
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/251101095638?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
I just ordered these for my pair of W70's. Browsing this thread, it looks like others have used them.
leesonic
Captured on security camera...
Would anyone care to measure the inside of their Wharfedale W70s (not W70D)? Also the length and diameter of the port tube please?
I'm picking up some drivers over the weekend and need to make or repurpose some cabinets for them, so I need the internal volume.
Lee.
I'm picking up some drivers over the weekend and need to make or repurpose some cabinets for them, so I need the internal volume.
Lee.
Realize this is an old thread, but I have just one original W60 - I've never opened it up, but I would assume it's one of the original alnico ones, based on its front grill and badge where "Wharfedale W60" is fully written out and is attached at an angle in the upper right hand corner. And ONE OF THESE CENTURIES I hope to find another or a pair of the same W60s in as good cosmetic condition locally. But I digress...What I wanted to ask was, I can't really tell if I'm hearing what you are hearing GT, or if the speaker doesn't need to be recapped. I mean, the thing sounds GOOD - wide open and big. With the Vit Q caps in my Fisher 800B, the bass can even get fat. But how would I know, if the speaker did need recapping? Would one assume, that after 50 years, it just does? Would the amount it was used over the years partially determine that? Or would it simply be a matter of age? Thanks, I hope you read this!