Recommendation's for MC Low output cartridge for Rock and Blues

Ranges

Ranges

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Looking for some Recommendation's for MC Low output cartridge for Rock and Blues. I currently have a Quintet Bronze into a Lehmannaudio SE II which is a little to warm and lush for me. I liked the sound of the Blackbird but did not get in on the closeout before they disappeared. Budget is around 1K. Will be used with a VPI Prime with JDM 10" uni-pivot tonearm.

Thanks
 
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UncleAng said:
The AT OC-9XML is not as warm as my AT33PTG/II; to me it sounds more like the OC-9ML that I used for years, which I much prefer for rock vs. the PTG
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Thanks, I was eyeing the AT-OC9XSL earlier. I will look for some reviews on the OC-9XML
 
I had an OC9XML for a short while (until I broke the cantilever off)it was excellent with all types of music with an ohm load of 240 to 280.
 
Maybe a Denon 103R? It's got a nice bass response. :thumbsup:

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Might want to look at DYLP Audio carts, their budget LOMC line includes the Windbell MC100MKII at $264, it's bass output ROCKS, very tight and punchy.

I was searching info on the SAE 1000 so many here purchased at $99 and ran across the Windbell. Purchased the SAE then researched the Windbell and found a review by Michael Fremer where he gave it high praise commenting on it's bass output. He also reviewed one of their other more expensive carts and commented on others and the manufacturer.

Analog Corner #320: DYLP phono cartridges, SME Model 6 Classic turntable, Loricraft PRC6i record cleaning machine | Stereophile.com

What? Suddenly a new Japanese cartridge manufacturer? That's what I was thinking when Mockingbird Distribution's Phillip Holmes dropped three cartridges on me from DYLP Audio. Never heard of them—but then I'd not heard of MuTech either when Holmes sent me one of that company's $4500 RM-Kanda...
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On the Kenwood KD-770D
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Mark 1234 said:
ZYX cartridges are great.
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And a little costly, for me, anyway.. Some of their least expensive, retail for around $900 but I know the OP’s budget is $1k.

A much less expensive one that I like is the AT-0X9ML that others have recommended. I used the ML/II version for about a year and think it sounds great - and it’s perfect for rock. Plenty speedy and punchy with great detail - and long stylus life, too. :)
I haven’t yet heard the AT33PTG to compare, and some say it’s a little warmer than the OC9. Specs are quite similar, though. IF you don’t mind going a little over budget, check out the AT ART9 carts… Yes, I do like low output AT carts. :)
 
I like the Audio Technica AT33Sa. Shibata tip. On my Technics 1200Mk2. :)

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Run-out: 28-3P-545 1-A-12. 〄 C
 
I tried the Audio Technica ART50ANV cartridge. Its heritage is the ART-1 line. Boron cantilever, line contact tip.

To me, it's even brighter than the AT-33Sa --- which is prolly has the most balanced treble-midrange sound of the AT cartridges that I've tried (both MM and MC). The AT "house sound" tends to be on the bright side. Which can become overly apparent if your speakers have horns.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at50anv

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Run-out: ST-RS-712189-G 1-1 [SRC logo]

I went back to Denon. Their "house sound" is more midrange-bass centered. A bit warmer sound --- to me.

Bought a DL-103Sa soon after the AT-AT50ANV. I like it the best. :)

Unfortunately, the DL-103Sa is discontinued. :(

https://www.highfidelity.pl/!ev/artykuly/21_02_2009/denon.html

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UncleAng said:
Got it mixed up with the XSH
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You raised a good point though even if you got the cart mixed up.
Due to Shibatas cool name people think it is the best cut and reality is it is far from it.
A Shibata is a conical with cuts like crossed swords which results in an elliptical contact patch with a radius of 7um which is quite large ( not a good thing) and the ends of thr elliptical go to fine points, very sharp ie infinitely small minor radius which is good for tracking a carrier frequency. Thr problem is these fine ends are wiped out with wear in a VERY short time. It is one reason people say Shibata is warm, it is not, but the cut wears to this point crazy fast leaving an oval blob contact patch which does not track highs as well. This state of wear won't damage vinyl but the performance of the Shibata has gone.
By the time the Shibata gets to 500 hours the minor radius is way too large to track inner grooves and the tips of the ellipsoid are long gone and not just the fine ends which are gone at about 100 hours.
Amazing what a cool name can do..
Chris
 
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cafe latte said:
Do to Shibatas cool name people think it is the best cut and reality is it is far from it.
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I think it all started with the really, really strange change in which Audio Technica placed its Shibata cut as something superior to the ML cut. Previously, mainly in the 80s, the ML cut was the top stylus option with the biggest price.

I think this might have something to do with Ortofon doing the same thing before Audio-Technica: i can recall that somewhere in the 2010s Ortofon issued an MC cartridge with Shibata cut, something that was completely strange/unheard of for Ortofon.

So some marketing genius figured out that the public perception was going to steer into "Shibata = Best" soon.

cafe latte said:
A Shibata is a conical with cuts like crossed swords which results in an elliptical contact patch with a radius of 7um which is quite large ( not a good thing)
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you say 7um is quite large. 7 micrometers is about 0.27mil, thus more or less equivalent in high frequency capability to a 0.3x0.7mil ellptical. Can't say this is "quite large" when these are the dimensions of some very good ellptical styli.

cafe latte said:
A Shibata is a conical with cuts like crossed swords
Click to expand...

To illustrate Cafe Latte's point (pun intended):

US Patent 3774918 to Norio Shibata:

1704499972954.png

The shibata is done by doing two back cuts to a regular stylus. Obviously the goal was to keep the stylus manufacturing as simple as possible. The patent even mentions a Shibata stylus done by adding only one cut (!) instead of two. Here the cost reduction is hinted at:

1704500675070.png

However the patent hints that the sharp edges are to be rounded off:

1704501053341.png
1704501077156.png

... so in theory there shouldn't be sharp edges there.

Now, i am not contradicting your claim that after 100h the Shibata has changed in shape; i'm just adding some precisions.


cafe latte said:
Amazing what a cool name can do
Click to expand...

Norio Shibata, born in Aichi, Japan, graduated from Yamagata University in 1964, invented the Shibata stylus in 1971.

He must be turning in his grave now...

But THANK YOU Norio, thanks to you we went beyond the elliptical!
 

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flavio81 said:
I think it all started with the really, really strange change in which Audio Technica placed its Shibata cut as something superior to the ML cut. Previously, mainly in the 80s, the ML cut was the top stylus option with the biggest price.

I think this might have something to do with Ortofon doing the same thing before Audio-Technica: i can recall that somewhere in the 2010s Ortofon issued an MC cartridge with Shibata cut, something that was completely strange/unheard of for Ortofon.

So some marketing genius figured out that the public perception was going to steer into "Shibata = Best" soon.



I don't understand why you say 7um is quite large. 7 micrometers is about 0.27mil, thus more or less equivalent in high frequency capability to a 0.3x0.7mil ellptical. Can't say this is "quite large" when these are the dimensions of some very good ellptical styli.



To illustrate Cafe Latte's point (pun intended):

US Patent 3774918 to Norio Shibata:

View attachment 3080842

The shibata is done by doing two back cuts to a regular stylus. Obviously the goal was to keep the stylus manufacturing as simple as possible. The patent even mentions a Shibata stylus done by adding only one cut (!) instead of two. Here the cost reduction is hinted at:

View attachment 3080852

However the patent hints that the sharp edges are to be rounded off:

View attachment 3080858
View attachment 3080859

... so in theory there shouldn't be sharp edges there.

Now, i am not contradicting your claim that after 100h the Shibata has changed in shape; i'm just adding some precisions.




Norio Shibata, born in Aichi, Japan, graduated from Yamagata University in 1964, invented the Shibata stylus in 1971.

He must be turning in his grave now...

But THANK YOU Norio, thanks to you we went beyond the elliptical!
Click to expand...
The ends of the contact patch are not sharp, but they are very very thin and very quickly obliterated.
Thanks for adding the drawings it ilustrated better than my explanation.
The issue with 7um minor radius is high frequency modulation at the inner grooves, radius of 7um cant track them, but a 2.5um micro ridge can.
As most here know I buy stylus tips and the Shibata is much cheaper to buy compared to a Micro ridge.
I do wonder if AT got a heap of Shibata cheap, I have no clue why they made them the top tip as they do not perform as well or indeed last as long as a Micro ridge.
Chris
 
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