Record Cleaning - What's Practical for Me?

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billyjk

Member
I've got a ton of vintage vinyl from my musician days, and I began to tackle the task of cleaning, as I recently restored a vintage Pioneer turntable that still needs some tweaks.

The first batch of records I cleaned were done as follows:

- Solution: 80% distilled water, 20% isopropyl alcohol, drop of Dawn
- Paint edge tool with clean pad
- Suction cups to hold the record and protect labels
- Process: rinse with distilled water, spray solution, manually use pad in circular motion, rinse again with distilled water, dry with microfiber cloth, dry vertically

This seems to get good results.

Short of investing in an automated machine, is there something I should change in my current process to yield a significant improvement? I know there are a million posts here on this general subject, but I am looking to see if there are any valuable tweaks within easy reach for me. For instance, I was wondering if using a surfactant other than Dawn or avoiding the use of alcohol would result in a significant improvement for me. Or maybe move to a Record Doctor brush.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have!
 
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Hello @billyjk and man oh man that is a can or worms indeed! Most who have ever tried one, myself included, the ultrasonic method seems to be the best choice of actually getting the foreign substances out of the recesses of the grooves. As you've already seen, doing a wash such as you are will in most cases make an improvement, but little if any of the "in the groove" material will be dislodged no matter how clean the surface of the record might seem. None of the brushes will have bristles tiny enough to go to the depths that a stylus does, so you need another approach. However, and this is said very frequently, it all depends on how clean you need them to be amigo. When I began to clean my records, I did exactly what you are doing and was pretty happy with it until I wasn't......which was when I heard a before and after of an album that had been ultrasonically cleaned. But man, I was overwhelmed and intimidated by the whole proposition so began to read, and read, and read some more until I felt at least confident enough to know where to start, which was with a tank and other paraphernalia needed to do the job. The suggestion above by @kwayde (thank you for your service, sir) is a good one. Try not to get too overwhelmed and take this a few pages at a time.....it will start to make more sense as you absorb all the good stuff that is presented there. Or, you can search this forum and find a few threads dealing with ultrasonic (sometimes abbreviated US) cleaning and see what you think. You will find much information upon which to base your choices from here. Good luck and happy cleaning, whichever way you go amigo!

PS - I think your formula of cleaning solution is fine, by the way, and identical to what I was using including the paint edging brushes when I first started on this adventure. You can certainly get more exotic, as in enzymatic cleaners etc. etc. but I did not experience any real improvement until I went US.
 
Fishead said:
Hello @billyjk and man oh man that is a can or worms indeed! Most who have ever tried one, myself included, the ultrasonic method seems to be the best choice of actually getting the foreign substances out of the recesses of the grooves. As you've already seen, doing a wash such as you are will in most cases make an improvement, but little if any of the "in the groove" material will be dislodged no matter how clean the surface of the record might seem. None of the brushes will have bristles tiny enough to go to the depths that a stylus does, so you need another approach. However, and this is said very frequently, it all depends on how clean you need them to be amigo. When I began to clean my records, I did exactly what you are doing and was pretty happy with it until I wasn't......which was when I heard a before and after of an album that had been ultrasonically cleaned. But man, I was overwhelmed and intimidated by the whole proposition so began to read, and read, and read some more until I felt at least confident enough to know where to start, which was with a tank and other paraphernalia needed to do the job. The suggestion above by @kwayde (thank you for your service, sir) is a good one. Try not to get too overwhelmed and take this a few pages at a time.....it will start to make more sense as you absorb all the good stuff that is presented there. Or, you can search this forum and find a few threads dealing with ultrasonic (sometimes abbreviated US) cleaning and see what you think. You will find much information upon which to base your choices from here. Good luck and happy cleaning, whichever way you go amigo!

PS - I think your formula of cleaning solution is fine, by the way, and identical to what I was using including the paint edging brushes when I first started on this adventure. You can certainly get more exotic, as in enzymatic cleaners etc. etc. but I did not experience any real improvement until I went US.
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@Fishead - thanks for your thoughts. It all makes sense. I need to read up more on ultrasound.
 
Oh man, get ready for the ride! :rflmao: No, seriously, I think you will enjoy it even if you don't decide to go that route, just lots of good information about records and the cleaning of them.
 
billyjk said:
I've got a ton of vintage vinyl from my musician days, and I began to tackle the task of cleaning, as I recently restored a vintage Pioneer turntable that still needs some tweaks.

The first batch of records I cleaned were done as follows:

- Solution: 80% distilled water, 20% isopropyl alcohol, drop of Dawn
- Paint edge tool with clean pad
- Suction cups to hold the record and protect labels
- Process: rinse with distilled water, spray solution, manually use pad in circular motion, rinse again with distilled water, dry with microfiber cloth, dry vertically

This seems to get good results.

Short of investing in an automated machine, is there something I should change in my current process to yield a significant improvement? I know there are a million posts here on this general subject, but I am looking to see if there are any valuable tweaks within easy reach for me. For instance, I was wondering if using a surfactant other than Dawn or avoiding the use of alcohol would result in a significant improvement for me. Or maybe move to a Record Doctor brush.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have!
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Only thing I would change is adding more rinse: I consider a thorough rinse as important as a thorough scrub.

Distilled is a waste on a dirty record, so I would rinse under the tap (assuming the tap water is clean drinking water) to remove any loose grit and dust that could potentially scratch while scrubbing. Wash/ scrub as usual using tepid water, then rinse copiously again under tap. Finally, rinse with the distilled sufficiently to displace all the tap water.

I also would not dry with a cloth as this will inevitably rub lint back into the grooves. A vacuum wand is best, but a jet of compressed air, or means to spin the record, or simply shake it and drip dry. Any of these is better than rubbing cloth fibres into a clean record, which could also generate static.

Lastly, if you experience problems with static, consider using a 2- in-1 shampoo instead of the dish soap as it has surfactants that help control static. Again, rinse thoroughly.
 
My quick answer is what you're doing is fine. I prefer and use Spinclean. there is a sale on these this time of year. Buy two, one wash one rinse. Place in rack or dry with towel. I'd use little to no alcohol, but that's just me. I use the spin clean fluid til gone, then whatever is appropriate. I use turgitol wetting agent call it good. Add a Large Blower like the Rocket photographers use to blow off crap before wetting. I recently added a used Nitty Gritty to vacuum the liquid before racking, significant improvement. Not expensive.
 
Though I own a different US cleaner, the Vevor on Amazon for $160 can do up to 10 records and will get in those grooves. Many AK'ers seem happy with its performance.
 
I know we want the records as clean as possible but I wouldn't be too concerned about a little dirt at the very bottom of the groove. The styli don't reach that low.

The sides are what matters.

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My recommendation would be to substitute one of the "free" HE washing machine detergents. They are very very close to the high priced high tech record cleaning solutions. They are low foam, and contain no dyes or scents like Dawn.

I use a label protector and a different brush, specifically made for vinyl. I also use my unlimited supply of RO water from my water purification system. I dry with a foam sponge, followed by an anti-static micro fiber cloth. Very important to use the anti Stat.

Finally, scrubbing is not as effective as US, but, scrubbing DOES cause turbulence and cavitation to a degree. You really don't need to actually have fibers IN the grooves to get them clean. Stubborn detritus can be removed after a few cleanings.

My 0.02$

Roger
 
I've been pretty happy with my ultrasonic. I have some Tergikleen now as a surfactant, but I'd be lying if I told you I thought it was appreciably better than a couple drops of Dawn and a drop of Jet Dry in distilled water. At one point I was even using rain water for this with no issue. Iin a gallon and a half of water, a couple drops of anything is pretty low concentration. With US all you really need it to do is break the surface tension, and very little is required to do that job.
 
As Fishead said, get ready for the ride. As ten record enthusiasts how to clean records and you will get fifteen answers. There are some real zealots out there.

The only "wrong" way is one that damages the vinyl and some might say that what I prescribe does so but not from my experience.

There is, somewhere on this great disinformation superhighway, a massive (100+ page) compendium/manifesto that covered every cleaning method in great detail but I can't seem to relocate it. Maybe someone knows what I'm talking about and can share the link.

I clean thousands of records a year and have found that using a microfiber cloth with a spray bottle of cleaning solution (don't use isopropyl, just detergent and distilled water) to get the major crap off first followed by spin clean with a more diluted detergent mix followed by ultrasonic with a very diluted (1 drop per liter - 6 liter tank) does a great job.

I use Triton XL as the detergent but don't believe that dawn or other suggestions will be that different. There are thoughts on detergents with quaternary salts help control post-cleaning static but that would require that some stay behind.

Distilled water is a must as tap water may leave a deposits. I have a distiller and my method is partly the result of conserving water. I generally toss the spin-clean solution after 5 records and the ultrasonic after 40 records and go through a lot of microfiber cloths. Maybe I'd be ahead to skip distilled in the spin clean since the US will rinse that off but why risk deposits along the way.

It is a game of diminishing returns. Hand cleaning and using a spin clean will do a good job (better than dry brushes and t-shirts) but I found the residual noise from leftover debris/residue annoying thus the final ultrasonic cleaning.

The detergent in the ultrasonic step acts as a surfactant and that, with increased temperature, helps with the formation of cavitation bubbles in the record groove. It is the collapse of the cavitation bubbles and the resulting localized high pressure "bang" that is, hopefully, dislodging those last few particles. I'd love to try a 80 kHz cleaner (smaller bubbles) but they are too pricey, so I stick with the standard 40 kHz. I keep tank temperature around 30 C - hotter and you risk warping at least from my experience.

Follow everything with a drip dry (lots of DIY solutions around). I have thoughts on converting a medical "snot sucker" that I bought from an amazon return auction into my own vacuum system as the last step but have too much other stuff going on.

Good luck!
 
If you've got a ton of vinyl this is what I would recommend.
Get a Vevor(or any other brand Ultrasonic LP cleaner) for about $200. Then first, if the records are dirty, hand wash with soap and tap water(some people on hear are going to have a heart attack when they see the words "tap water" but if the records are really dirty, it won't matter and it'll save you some money). Once you've hand cleaned the dirty LPs, you are ready for US cleaning.

My US cleaning formula is as follows:
Distilled or filtered water(what ever I have of the two)
Some isopropyl alcohol(typically less than 20% of the water)
One tablespoon or two tablespoons of Ilfotol
Three or 4 drops of dawn dishwashing soap.

Typically I run the temp around 35-40 dec C for two cycles of 30 minutes each.
People will send a link to the War and Peace of record cleaning solution in pdf format but you just want a formula. The above has worked very well for me.
 
bkatbamna said:
If you've got a ton of vinyl this is what I would recommend.
Get a Vevor(or any other brand Ultrasonic LP cleaner) for about $200. Then first, if the records are dirty, hand wash with soap and tap water(some people on hear are going to have a heart attack when they see the words "tap water" but if the records are really dirty, it won't matter and it'll save you some money). Once you've hand cleaned the dirty LPs, you are ready for US cleaning.

My US cleaning formula is as follows:
Distilled or filtered water(what ever I have of the two)
Some isopropyl alcohol(typically less than 20% of the water)
One tablespoon or two tablespoons of Ilfotol
Three or 4 drops of dawn dishwashing soap.

Typically I run the temp around 35-40 dec C for two cycles of 30 minutes each.
People will send a link to the War and Peace of record cleaning solution in pdf format but you just want a formula. The above has worked very well for me.
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Our methods are not too far off - think my US is an old Vevor.

Yeah, tap water till last step saves some money.

I use isopropyl when I run into really greasy residue but not so much with the US as, given the temperature, it tends to evaporate during the process.

Sounds strange but I have (off and on) tried using rinse aid (a few drops) in the US cleaner in addition to the Triton XL hoping it helped as a wetting agent.

One thing I did find (early in the process) is that high soap/detergent concentration in the final step will result in residue on your record that you don't see but appears as white fluffy stuff on your stylus.

I typically don't run 30 minute cycles - more like 5-10 minutes @ about 2 rpm (homemade stepper motor rotisserie). More of an efficiency issue than additional cleaning.

Whatever route you choose try not to damage your records in the process by grinding dirt/particles across the surface or using cleaning compounds that might damage the record.

Good luck
 
bikspk said:
Our methods are not too far off - think my US is an old Vevor.

Yeah, tap water till last step saves some money.

I use isopropyl when I run into really greasy residue but not so much with the US as, given the temperature, it tends to evaporate during the process.

Sounds strange but I have (off and on) tried using rinse aid (a few drops) in the US cleaner in addition to the Triton XL hoping it helped as a wetting agent.

One thing I did find (early in the process) is that high soap/detergent concentration in the final step will result in residue on your record that you don't see but appears as white fluffy stuff on your stylus.

I typically don't run 30 minute cycles - more like 5-10 minutes @ about 2 rpm (homemade stepper motor rotisserie). More of an efficiency issue than additional cleaning.

Whatever route you choose try not to damage your records in the process by grinding dirt/particles across the surface or using cleaning compounds that might damage the record.

Good luck
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I only have around 150-200 records so I don't mind the 30 minute x 2 cycles. I have cleaned every record twice(so a total of 4 cycles of 30 minutes). Best I've ever heard them sound. As a bonus, static is minimal.
 
When getting suspect used records (antique mall, record fair), I will use my carbon fiber brush on it, then rinse under tap water before my normal cleaning. Some records need to be cleaned several times, some of this imbedded dirt is older than me.

I use the Groovewasher kit to do a pre-clean, then it goes into my ultrasonic cleaner. The kit works very well for me, the different brushes are great, and do not leave anything behind. Always let the records dry in the UC dryer cycle, Never touch a clean record.

Honestly cleaning records is a PITA. Usually save up till there are 20+, just spend a day cleaning. Even new records need a good cleaning. With my setup, I can only do 4-6 records an hour.
 
Assuming you have a vacuum cleaner you can rig a DIY contraption to suck the dirt out of the grooves after washing. There are articles on the interwebs on how to do it.

This is, in my experience, the biggest improvement to record cleaning.
 
bkatbamna said:
My US cleaning formula is as follows:
Distilled or filtered water(what ever I have of the two)
Some isopropyl alcohol(typically less than 20% of the water)
One tablespoon or two tablespoons of Ilfotol
Three or 4 drops of dawn dishwashing soap.

Typically I run the temp around 35-40 dec C for two cycles of 30 minutes each.
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Why are you using a 30 min cycle for ultrasonic cleaning? 30 minutes is overkill for ultrasonic cleaning of vinyl records unless your ultrasonic cleaner is not operating properly. I cleaned over 1000 records over a 30 year period with my ultrasonic cleaner with excellent results. I never exceeded 10 minutes in a cleaning cycle. I did an extensive study using a variety of surface analytical techniques to evaluate the effectiveness of ultrasonic cleaning and found that 6 to 9 minutes at 2 RPM was typically ideal (using distilled water and proper surfactant at proper concentration). Longer times began to leach various additives from the bulk of the vinyl record and also can induce pitting and rounding of the sidewall peaks in the record groove.

Also if you are using Ilfotol, there is no need to add Dawn to your solution. Ilfotol already contains a nonionic surfactant. Dawn contains anionic surfactants which can bond to the vinyl record surface and are difficult to remove.
 
Lou G said:
Why are you using a 30 min cycle for ultrasonic cleaning? 30 minutes is overkill.... Longer times began to leach various additives from the bulk of the vinyl record and also can induce pitting and rounding of the sidewall peaks in the record groove.
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100% correct, in my experience.
 
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