Revisiting the 2006 FMTUNERINFO Shootout rankings

GyroTuner

GyroTuner

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All tuner aficionados lover the fmtunerinfo web site, including me, even though it rarely updated anymore. An incredible amount of information is posted there. But the other day I took my first look in a long time at the "iconic" shootout rankings, which I know were published with a lot of disclaimers. Even so, a lot of people swear by those ratings:

https://www.fmtunerinfo.com/shootouts.html

I've owned a lot of tuners and a few things jumped out at me as being inaccurate. I get that they didn't have the resources to include everything in the shootout (Yamaha T-85 is a notable omission), but how about these ratings?

Kenwood KT-8300, #44. There are 43 tuners better than the KT-8300? Don't make me laugh!
Yamaha T-2, #62. There are 61 tuners better than the T-2? You gotta be kidding me!
Marantz 2130, #76. There are 75 tuners better than the 2130? Are you out of your mind!

As a general observation, I think Yamaha tuners get the short end of the stick at fmtunerinfo. Even the low end Yamahas are good tuners. I'm a big Sansui fan, but think TU-717 is overrated at #17. It is similar performance wise to a KT-7300 (#58).

I still like the site, and hope it never goes away, but the most of the shootout ratings don't make much sense when I look at them now.
 
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The site is a gem, but if you look at their review systems, they're using....esoteric....gear. And I'm being nice about it.

Using highly colored equipment in reviews will often cloud one's opinions, and without being able to generate the same signals for every unit by having your own stereo FM generator, I find the comparisons mostly meaningless.
 
I think the rankings are pretty solid, there is the odd one that I don't agree with, but most of the top tuners belong there. As noted others should be a lot higher. My particular one I disagree with the DA-F20 being ranked so high. Never found it that appealing, visually, functionally or sonically. Good tuner, was a great tuner for the money back when you could get them for under a $100. Value inflated on them when it got ranked so high. Buying one then spending money on it to restore, modify and align. Just think there are way better tuners to spend that type of money on.
 
I participate in the discussion group but not going back to when the rankings were established. The folks that did these ranking as far as I can tell do not even participate anymore so take those rankings as certain folks opinions.
I agree with the yami T-85 being one of best tuners ever designed I have 3 of them in use:) I still have to design a remote for it.
 
I’ve got a KT-8300 and I think it’s a fine tuner. I had a Magnumb Dynalab before and the Kenwood is far superior.

I actually picked it up (and it is the anchor of my “70’s silver face stack”) based on what I gleaned from FM Tuner Info, but it’s performance was an eye opener.

I suggest their rankings be “class” rather than numerical. I’m guessing the differences between #10 and #20 are pretty subtle…
 
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The main page tuner reviews, by brand, at fmtunerinfo.com are the best representation of what the broad tuner community thinks of each model. Those reviews include comments from many different contributors to the site.

The shootouts were done by one person, as fun project, with "as found" tuners - no alignment, no mods. It was not a group project. This disclaimer seems to be lost on most folks. They were done by Jim Rivers, site co-founder and well known member of the Dallas audio community. Jim passed many years ago.

From day one, others disagreed with Jim, and "David A." even penned a rebuttal to them, which we, for fun, named "Ricochets". https://www.fmtunerinfo.com/ricochets.html

So please don't take the shootouts too seriously. One of Jim's self imposed rules for shootouts was "no mods".
Because he told us his fully modded and aligned units, like his KT-7500, https://www.fmtunerinfo.com/DIY.html
for sound quality, topped every stock tuner.
 
I think I recall that. It’s been a few years since I’ve been over there.

I just wanted a silver stack; decided on Kenwood, and went from there.
 
The problem is, for better or worse, the rankings on that site are the sole basis for pricing in the used market. Now there is a quick 1 step way to anyone to price Unit A more than Unit B because of it's ranking there. Reality check, the site is just the work of a handful of crusty old farts like the rest of us. I do love the site though. I wouldn't buy a tuner without reviewing what they have to say about it. And yes I want to try a KT-8300 too but thanks to this site can't find a deal!
 
dinger said:
The problem is, for better or worse, the rankings on that site are the sole basis for pricing in the used market. Now there is a quick 1 step way to anyone to price Unit A more than Unit B because of it's ranking there. Reality check, the site is just the work of a handful of crusty old farts like the rest of us. I do love the site though. I wouldn't buy a tuner without reviewing what they have to say about it. And yes I want to try a KT-8300 too but thanks to this site can't find a deal!
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I agree with everything you wrote. I also understand what @Bob@FM said about the shootout rankings. But once the ranking were there, they were there, and few people read the fine print, so the rankings themselves are probably the only thing that has had a big influence on pricing.

The KT-8300 is a terrific tuner in my opinion, and would probably go for more bucks if it were correctly ranked higher than #44.

I did go back and read the part of the shootout about the Yamaha T-2, which noted that: This sample of the T-2 had a lot of drift, which lasted for a good 5 minutes after turn-on.

That probably doomed it to a low rating. You have to wonder how a T-2 in better condition would have fared.
 
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ESL (Electronic Service Labs) is not far from my work. I have toyed with the idea of letting them lose in the 8300- recap and alignment... can you imagine that!?!

Then I imagine what their price tag will be and a settle down pretty quickly.

Though, I do have to say they are very good at following directions. For the same stack, I have a (well, two actually) KX-1030 cassette deck, that they worked on for me. I discussed it with them, working in steps, so that work stops when there will be no point to go further. So, in that case, the mechanism was already overhauled by me, because that stuff is easy for me. Then they aligned the heads, installed an NOS pinch roller (they have a LOT of parts they do not sell lose), and setting playback gain etc.

But, when it came time to set recording bias and levels, it was discovered the Dolby chip was noisy. So, at that point we pulled the plug, and I have an exceptional playback deck, but it cannot be used for recording because all signal, even if Dolby is bypassed, goes through the Dolby chip.

I bought the second deck thinking it could be fully set up but I've been distracted by other projects etc...
 
I have a stock kt-8300, it’s fine with a strong signal but it lacks selectivity in a crowded band, so to have it perform for me, it needs a fine filter mod which I can’t bother to do it since the t-85’s do the job.
 
Tuners are one of the types of equipment that I am not as broadly educated into what makes one "good" and "better than another." I read the shootout at some time and was entertained.

I enjoy all the features on my Marantz 2130, but I got it to match the other separates in the stack. It does what I need it to do, but I really need a good antenna outside to work with it to make it shine, as it is limited now by not having that, I think. I do have 5 stations in the area I like, so I think it's worth doing.
 
Imo an external directional fm antenna and rotor is required for anything that is not a high powered local station or having low power such as a community radio station. It raises the rf signal level thus reducing noise esp in stereo. So it really depends on your situation. Good antenna systems are not cheap and in many cases difficult to install
 
dinger said:
The problem is, for better or worse, the rankings on that site are the sole basis for pricing in the used market...
And yes I want to try a KT-8300 too but thanks to this site can't find a deal!
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The KT-8300 is not ranked very high. Also others, like the Marantz 2130 and McIntosh MR-78 still command steep prices in the market despite being ranked 76 and 77 out of 84 tuners. Same with Yamaha CT-7000, Yamaha T2 etc.
There were a handful of tuners that were "outed" and went up in price, like the Kenwood KT-5020, Sansui TU-919, and Philips AH6731. But it's easy to find others ranked high that can still be fairly inexpensive, like the Sansui TU-S9, Pioneer F99X, F90, etc. So while some may use it as a guide, my opinion is there are many others factors determining desirability, and hence price.
Also don't miss the Shootouts 2 section, which has limited comparisons of tuner models from others with new reviews posted in 2022. Yamaha T-85 fans may appreciated some of the comments there -
https://fmtunerinfo.com/shootouts2.html
If you have your own shootouts, email them in to Eric per instructions on that link above. You don't have to be a crusty old fart to get a personal shootout published.
 
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I agree that some tuners should be higher, and or lower on the list. My big pet peeve is the infamous Kenwood L-02T being better than all but one tuner ever made? Absolute BS. First off that tuner is very very rare and if you do find one expect to spend a lot of money on it. Now its so old that it likely needs some repair work done. I've never heard that tuner, and at one time I swore I was going to buy the next one I found for sale. When that lucky listing did finally come along, it was so high that I found many other things to spend that money on. Is The Kenwood L-02T really that good? I seriously doubt it, if and when I find one for reasonable money I will answer that question.. until them its a big negatory.. Thats my problem with that site. And it really touches a nerve.

That being said I cant imagine the amount of time and effort that went into doing something like that. There is nothing else like it anywhere on the web. Personally I go there on a regular basis to look up a tuner I may want.

What we need is another tuner shootout! ... so how about it @Punker X ???!!!
 
Bob@FM said:
The KT-8300 is not ranked very high. Also others, like the Marantz 2130 and McIntosh MR-78 still command steep prices in the market despite being ranked 76 and 77 out of 84 tuners. Same with Yamaha CT-7000, Yamaha T2 etc. There were a handful of tuners that were "outed" and went up in price, like the Kenwood KT-5020, Sansui TU-919, and Philips AH6731.
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All good points but I think the list still has had a disproportionately large impact on the perception and prices of vintage tuners. I imagine that the 2130 price is high because of aesthetics (no rankings can change that) and all McIntosh gear is expensive, period. Plus, the MR-78 is in the IEEE Consumer Electronics Hall of Fame:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-consumer-electronics-hall-of-fame-mcintosh-mr-78-tuner

The Philips AH6731 was definitely "outed" by fmtunerinfo and would like to try one someday, but have never run across one so far. I'm intrigued by comments about the AM section.
 
GyroTuner said:
All good points but I think the list still has had a disproportionately large impact on the perception and prices of vintage tuners. I imagine that the 2130 price is high because of aesthetics (no rankings can change that) and all McIntosh gear is expensive, period. Plus, the MR-78 is in the IEEE Consumer Electronics Hall of Fame:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-consumer-electronics-hall-of-fame-mcintosh-mr-78-tuner

The Philips AH6731 was definitely "outed" by fmtunerinfo and would like to try one someday, but have never run across one so far. I'm intrigued by comments about the AM section.
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I have one and is one of the best, you can find a KT-8007 cheap and is very good. My tech changed the filters and here are the results after alignment

THD (mono) is 53dB, (stereo) is 60dB, separation is about 55dB.

the tuner was top of the line in the Kenwood chain

https://audio-heritage.jp/TRIO-KENWOOD/tuner/kt-9007.html

more expensive than a Sansui tu-9900

https://audio-heritage.jp/SANSUI/tuner/tu-9900.html
 
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