Schiit Modi 3

nikkofan

nikkofan

Active Member
Good Day,
Currently I own a modi 2. Overall I am very pleased with it. My question is besides the on-off power switch does anyone have any first hand impressions on the sound of the modi 3 vs modi 2. I have a usb port that shuts down power when not in use. I am only concerned if the sound is an upgrade.
Thanks for any opinions,
Best,
"nikkofan"
 
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I'll I can say is that I've had the Modi 3+ for about 3 years and it's excellent. I think the Unison USB input is the only difference
 
One Modi 3, two Modi 3+, all 3 upgraded to OPA1612 op amps and all wet electrolytics replaced with polymer ones. They sound real good to my ears! I've not owned a Modi 2, so I have no frame of reference for the differences, but my senses tell me they're small. Why? Any competently designed piece of audio electronics -- like a DAC -- usually has a close to ruler flat frequency response within the threshold of human hearing. This makes the loudspeaker the weakest link in the audio chain. fwiw...
 
rjsalvi said:
One Modi 3, two Modi 3+, all 3 upgraded to OPA1612 op amps and all wet electrolytics replaced with polymer ones. They sound real good to my ears! I've not owned a Modi 2, so I have no frame of reference for the differences, but my senses tell me they're small. Why? Any competently designed piece of audio electronics -- like a DAC -- usually has a close to ruler flat frequency response within the threshold of human hearing. This makes the loudspeaker the weakest link in the audio chain. fwiw...
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The op amps are replaceable in the Modi 3 & 3+? I had no idea - did you do it yourself or did you have Schiit do it?
I wonder if the Sparkos SS3602 would fit, it's been getting a lot of love lately.
thanks
BT
 
I performed the upgrade, but the only op amp package that will work, is an SOIC. The Sparkos is an 8-DIP configuration. If you have a steady hand and a good soldering station, it's not too big a deal to replace it. The PCB has to be removed to have an ample amount of room to work.
 
rjsalvi said:
I performed the upgrade, but the only op amp package that will work, is an SOIC. The Sparkos is an 8-DIP configuration. If you have a steady hand and a good soldering station, it's not too big a deal to replace it. The PCB has to be removed to have an ample amount of room to work.
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Thanks for the reply; I'll leave my Modi 3 as-is for now, I'll admit I don't have the skills to tackle that job.
Do you recall what the stock op-amp is in the 3?
 
There should be no need to change the op-amps. I would also be wary IF you hear a change in sound as this is most likely due to oscillation of the circuit which can cause different kinds of issues because the new opamp is not matched to the circuitry.
Why you want to change a perfectly performing DAC instead of using EQ to suit your taste?
 
Could be because EQ changes the quantity of sound (at particular freqs) whereas a judicious opamp swap improves the quality. OPA2210 might be a good choice, its lower noise even though slightly less BW.
 
xdd said:
Could be because EQ changes the quantity of sound (at particular freqs) whereas a judicious opamp swap improves the quality. OPA2210 might be a good choice, its lower noise even though slightly less BW.
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I think we need to look at the relativity in this.
The prerequisite for that swap to be an worthwhile upgrade would be that there is (audible) noise in the first place.

Modi 3 USB:

1723707280962.png
1723707305137.png

Modi 3 SPDIF:

1723708823955.png
 
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@Retro_Pete ... your assumptions are based on whether one "needs" to swap out an op amp, as opposed to whether one _wants_ to. Big difference.

Here are the datasheets for the OPA1612 and OPA1662. In just about every category, the 1612 has superior specs to the 1662, EXCEPT in one major area; price. Are you a manufacturer? If you were going to manufacture 100K Modi 3 (entry level) units and you could use really good sounding op amps for $2 less per unit than a superior one, what would you do? Bear in mind, if you're a manufacturer who has various performance tiers of DACs, do you want your entry level DAC to spec as good as your TOTL flagship unit? I think not, but I also realize an op amp change only, will not elevate an entry level DAC to superstar status. It's all about price point and perceived value.

You'd also mentioned oscillations, but they wouldn't manifest themselves in a change of tonality, rather out of band noise which may, or may not be audible. And if it was oscillating, it could cause clipping in downstream components and you'd likely hear that. That said, a quick check with an oscilloscope can verify the results.

To be sure, Schiit is a very competent designer/manufacturer and at the time of their product releases, they maintain a reputation for quality. That doesn't mean a DIY'er can't improve upon a design at their own expense. In fact, one of the main features of this website, is related to repairing, restoring and upgrading gear. It's fun and for some, a learning experience.
 
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rjsalvi said:
@Retro_Pete ... your assumptions are based on whether one "needs" to swap out an op amp, as opposed to whether one _wants_ to. Big difference.

Here are the datasheets for the OPA1612 and OPA1662. In just about every category, the 1612 has superior specs to the 1662, EXCEPT in one major area; price. Are you a manufacturer? If you were going to manufacture 100K Modi 3 (entry level) units and you could use really good sounding op amps for $2 less per unit than a superior one, what would you do? Bear in mind, if you're a manufacturer who has various performance tiers of DACs, do you want your entry level DAC to spec as good as your TOTL flagship unit? I think not, but I also realize an op amp change only, will not elevate an entry level DAC to superstar status. It's all about price point and perceived value.

You'd also mentioned oscillations, but they wouldn't manifest themselves in a change of tonality, rather out of band noise which may, or may not be audible. And if it was oscillating, it could cause clipping in downstream components and you'd likely hear that. That said, a quick check with an oscilloscope can verify the results.

To be sure, Schiit is a very competent designer/manufacturer and at the time of their product releases, they maintain a reputation for quality. That doesn't mean a DIY'er can't improve upon a design at their own expense. In fact, one of the main features of this website, is related to repairing, restoring and upgrading gear. It's fun and for some, a learning experience.
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Oscillation can drop harmonics into the audible band from above. Giving a sense of the "air" and "detail" that some describe when swapping op-amps.

In this particular example you'd in the best case scenario be improving the already below audible noise floor only for measurement tools to pick up.
Sensible? -IMO it is not worthwhile improving something that you wouldn't notice. And here I assume that this is the reason people would swap an op-amp in the first place.
People should use the information provided the way they want and spend their money the way they want. In this case my advice would be to spend the money on something else.

Edit: It's not that I don't understand the urge to tinker with a hobby for fun or learning. Which, if this is the case, doesn't have to be justifiable for other reasons.
 
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Retro_Pete said:
People should use the information provided the way they want and spend their money the way they want. In this case my advice would be to spend the money on something else.
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OPA2210IDR is $4.54 on Mouser. What's your suggestion for an improvement under 5 bucks?
 
xdd said:
OPA2210IDR is $4.54 on Mouser. What's your suggestion for an improvement under 5 bucks?
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A penny saved is a penny earned.
It could've been 100 USD or 1 USD or even if it was given for free it would still not make an audible difference.

You could also replace add "time" and my advice would be the same.

People should use the information provided the way they want and spend their TIME & money the way they want. In this case my advice would be to spend the TIME & money on something else.
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xdd said:
So no suggestion then because the DAC's already as perfect as they come?
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If the goal is audibly better sound quality it's objectively a waste of time and money to change the DAC in question or the op-amp in the DAC in question as it (The Modi 3) has inaudible noise and distortion ab standard. There may be subjective reasons for doing so anyway, as mentioned before.
 
If you want to experiment with OP Amp rolling there are DACs with socketed OP Amps you can mess with. I had a Maverick DAC that folks could experiment with tubes and DACs. If you google it there is debate whether it is a benefit. There are cheap and expensive OP Amps. In my experience I didn't think there was a noticeable difference. The stock OP Amps sounded fine.

Sometimes maybe something sounds different but is it better? It takes special skills and tools to change the OP Amp in the Modi if you can do it and that is fun for you OK.
 
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