SME 3009 Series ii (unimproved) VS any other 800 dollar or less tonearm

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nealmd

New Member
Hi all. Does the SME 3009 hold up after 50 years? I have a lead on a new old stock SME 3009 series ii for 800 bucks. Should I get that for the Thorens 125mkii that is flying to me right now (sans tonearm), or should I look for a more modern tonearm like a Rega or a Jelco. I know the SME is a classic, but I'm just looking for what will sound the best with a nice mid price MM or MC cartridge.

Thank you for your thoughts!

PS - for reference, right now I use a technics 1200mk2 without any alterations to the tonearm. so hopefully it's a jump from that tonearm...
 
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Jelco is out of business so you MAY be able to catch a bargain. Rega tonearms come without provision for VTA adjustments but spacers and variable adjusters are available. Others more familiar with the SME 3009 Series II will have more input.
 
johnjhazel said:
Jelco is out of business so you MAY be able to catch a bargain. Rega tonearms come without provision for VTA adjustments but spacers and variable adjusters are available. Others more familiar with the SME 3009 Series II will have more input.
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Oh wow, I missed their closure. I don't think I'll get a deal, I think they'll became rare and sought after! interesting about the rega tonearms. Thanks for your response!
 
I have a TD125 and a 3009 Improved. Really is a great combo for this deck.
I also have a SL-1210GR and the TD sounds as good if not better, but I don't have the removable headshell on the SME.
 
nealmd said:
Oh wow, I missed their closure. I don't think I'll get a deal, I think they'll became rare and sought after! interesting about the rega tonearms. Thanks for your response!
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You are welcome. I wish that I could be of more help. One model of 3009 is of very low mass and really limits your cartridge selection but I forget which one.
 
I can't say enough good things about my SME 3009 Series II unimproved and I consider myself fortunate to own it.
I think it's very well engineered and there's nothing negative I can say about it.

I paid $500 for it 6 or 7 years ago.
 
heyraz said:
I can't say enough good things about my SME 3009 Series II unimproved and I consider myself fortunate to own it.
I think it's very well engineered and there's nothing negative I can say about it.

I paid $500 for it 6 or 7 years ago.
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that's great. Did you rewire it with cardas or do any of the hacks or as out of the box is perfect?
 
SME3009 'Improved' SII (originally with fixed headshell) owner here that venture into DIY tweaks on a tight budget to convert it one step at a time into a detachable headshell tonearm and into a heavy effective mass tonearm to suit better my beloved Denon DL-102 low-low compliant cartridges. Now I know my SME tonearm from inside-out by now. Kept most original parts but the weight and have done silver OFC coated Cardas wires swap (OEM were not in good shape really) and gained on 'clarity' FWIW.

Now I must say that I Iove the SME build from the SI up to the SII and S2 tonearms as they share a similar evolutive potential. Knife edge bearing is also my thing now (steel knife edge bearing and heavy effective mass makes them sing) and on that knife edge bearing matter I would like to hear one of the last knife edge bearing tonearms of Jelco... The pre-improved SME's command higher price tags but actually I am most happy with the sonic results of my tweaked 'Improved' one actually.
 
What is there in the 800 range of tonearms?

The SME just looks right on a TD-125 so you have that win against almost any other tonearm.

I've had a couple /S2 Improved arms...nomenclature
SME 3009 rare early model
SME 3009 Series II the moderate mass two piece counterweight version
SME 3009 Series II improved, the fixed headshell lower mass 6.5g more common version, the 1st fixed headshell
SME 3009/S2 Improved (sometimes Series II added after S2) is the removable headshell version as the headshell is called S2.
SME 3009 Series III is the very low mass 5g dainty looking arm.

The preferred arm is the Series II of moderate mass as it will work well with a lot of cartridges but maybe not the NLA Shure V15s, ADC, and other very high compliance cartridges we don't see anymore.

Options instead of the 3009 are a slew of very low mass designs from Mayware, Polk, Sonus, JH Reproducers and of course Infinity. Not many cartridge choices for these today so I consider them obsolete.

Newer nice arms are the Audiomods and an SME M2-9 but SME like Jelco has left the tonearm business but unlike Jelco is now concentrating on the turntable market with their tonearms. They have supported their product for decades after production has ended so maybe the availability of parts will stay.

In the 800 buck arena, I think you are above the common tonearms out there and below the really good stuff. I have a 3009 now on the sidelines as I enjoy using the Magnepan arm. No longer available but a great tonearm for the money.
 
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Blue Shadow said:
What is there in the 800 range of tonearms?

The SME just looks right on a TD-125 so you have that win against almost any other tonearm.

I've had a couple /S2 Improved arms...nomenclature
SME 3009 rare early model
SME 3009 Series II the moderate mass two piece counterweight version
SME 3009 Series II improved, the fixed headshell lower mass 6.5g more common version
SME 3009/S2 Improved (sometimes Series II added after S2) is the removable headshell version as the headshell is called S2.
SME 3009 Series III is the very low mass 5g dainty looking arm.

The preferred arm is the Series II of moderate mass as it will work well with a lot of cartridges but maybe not the NLA Shure V15s, ADC, and other very high compliance cartridges we don't see anymore.

Options instead of the 3009 are a slew of very low mass designs from Mayware, Polk, Sonus, JH Reproducers and of course Infinity. Not many cartridge choices for these today so I consider them obsolete.

Newer nice arms are the Audiomods and an SME M2-9 but SME like Jelco has left the tonearm business but unlike Jelco is now concentrating on the turntable market with their tonearms. They have supported their product for decades after production has ended so maybe the availability of parts will stay.

In the 800 buck arena, I think you are above the common tonearms out there and below the really good stuff. I have a 3009 now on the sidelines as I enjoy using the Magnepan arm. No longer available but a great tonearm for the money.
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This was highly informative. I appreciate the time! I think I'll pull the trigger on the moderate mass SME 3009 Series II.
 
nealmd said:
Hi all. Does the SME 3009 hold up after 50 years? I have a lead on a new old stock SME 3009 series ii for 800 bucks. Should I get that for the Thorens 125mkii that is flying to me right now (sans tonearm), or should I look for a more modern tonearm like a Rega or a Jelco. I know the SME is a classic, but I'm just looking for what will sound the best with a nice mid price MM or MC cartridge.

Thank you for your thoughts!

PS - for reference, right now I use a technics 1200mk2 without any alterations to the tonearm. so hopefully it's a jump from that tonearm...
Click to expand...
nealmd said:
Hi all. Does the SME 3009 hold up after 50 years? I have a lead on a new old stock SME 3009 series ii for 800 bucks. Should I get that for the Thorens 125mkii that is flying to me right now (sans tonearm), or should I look for a more modern tonearm like a Rega or a Jelco. I know the SME is a classic, but I'm just looking for what will sound the best with a nice mid price MM or MC cartridge.

Thank you for your thoughts!

PS - for reference, right now I use a technics 1200mk2 without any alterations to the tonearm. so hopefully it's a jump from that tonearm...
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I am a fan of the SME, I run 2 of them.

Just be sure to run a compatible cart with it. Is it worth the $800...? that depended on how bad you want it. I have linn arms that were substantially less money and sound just as good.

The 3009 is a great arm, and when set up properly sounds fantastic, but it’s not an “end all” arm.

I also run a pioneer PL-41 with the stock arm, and with the proper cart I feel it sounds just as good.

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My advice, go find an SME that’s set up and give it a listen.
 
If you are planning on using a high compliance cartridge, I think the much maligned (or at least over-looked) SMEIII is a better arm and certainly a better value. In its stock form it is very low mass, but it responds well to (and was supplied with) added headshell weight to raise its mass so it probably would work the same cartridges as the Technics.
 
I have my SME 3009 rewired with Cardas silver cable and it sounds exceptional with my Thorens TD-125 .

p.s. I read so many saying the 125 has to be well isolated because it’s prone to footfalls . This may be true but in my case this table is incredible with how well isolated it is , I don’t know if it’s the custom plinth that has added weight to it the 3 foot system I have or the combination of it all , but it will not skip . It has passed my 165lbs Mastiff jumping off the couch test , she doesn’t do this often but when she does it is a true test to how good your table is isolated.
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Audiofreak71
 
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I had a SME Series 1, II , and III in the 60's and 70's. They all preformed well had plenty of adjustments to dial them in correctly. But like others have. said the II does better with medium massed cartridges. I eventually went with a linear arm to get better tracking and not have to deal with anti skating which never seemed to be the correct solution. As long as you're not after modern SME performance levels the II will do every nicely. It and MY V-15 IV and V didn't get along that well. My Ortofons were the cartridges that really gave me fits in the 70's and why I went to Rabco linear arm. I tried a Model III for about 2 weeks and after seeing What a B&o 4000 series could do with a linear arm I took the SME back and got the Rabco. Nothing could track a warped record like the B&O . Not a Revox and certainly not the Marantz SLT-12.
 
Audiofreak71 said:
p.s. I read so many saying the 125 has to be well isolated because it’s prone to footfalls
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The lesser Thorens tables are the ones that suffer from footfalls. I had to tip toe with the 160Super, not so with the 125. The suspended section is a chunk of heavy metal on the 125 and that takes some bounce to get moving. Not so with the light suspended chassis in the lesser models. But no one can't dance on bouncy floors and expect a 125 to absorb it all.
 
Blue Shadow said:
The lesser Thorens tables are the ones that suffer from footfalls. I had to tip toe with the 160Super, not so with the 125. The suspended section is a chunk of heavy metal on the 125 and that takes some bounce to get moving. Not so with the light suspended chassis in the lesser models. But no one can't dance on bouncy floors and expect a 125 to absorb it all.
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Ah I see , that makes sense. Well it’s not like I’m trying to make it skip , but there has been 2 times since I have gotten it back from being rebuilt that I would have bet money on it skipping and nope it rode those grooves like the bullet train in Japan and didn’t skip a beat , truly impressive imo and I don’t want to repeat it lol.

Audiofreak71
 
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