Some records "don't work" on New Rega P3 Exact

[joostdemoor]

Hi all,

Since a few weeks I have a new Rega P3 with an Exact cartridge (combined with a rega fono mini a2d pre-amp, a Sony TA F555ES amp, and KEF Q350 speakers). I'm generally extremely satisfied with its musical performance. However, I am experiencing some rather puzzling issues with a few of my records. More specificall, there is two records (that I know of so far) that "don't seem to work" on this turntable, whereas they did on my old setup (so the problem is not with the records). Essentially, when I play them, the sound is initially fine, but then the sound inevitably switches (quite instantly) to become heavily distorted and overall terrible. The stylus stays in the groove, but the is as if either the music is somehow triggering the stylus to 'lose contact' internally, or that the stylus is unable to track these particular grooves. Every time I lift the stylus and put it back down, the sound will be fine for a few seconds, but then become distoted again. The two records are Zeit by Tangerine Dream and Luxury Problems by Andy Stodd. Admittedly, these are quite demanding records (Zeit has multiple layers of cello overlaying each other, as well as various layers of synth that build up in various crescendos; Luxury Problems has heavy industrial beats), but there are other highly demanding records that don't cause these problems (take for instance other records by the same artists, Kid A or In Rainbows by Radiohead, or Loveless by My Bloody Valentine).

What might cause this, and what could solve it? Is it possible that some grooves are so demanding to track that I should consider increasing the tracking weight when playing these records (i.e. to force the stylus to stay locked into the grove, even though it currently does not skip)? Is it possible that these records have groves that are so wide that the quite narrow stylus of the Exact has enough space to 'bounce around'? As you can probably tell, I'm quite clueless about this stuff and would appreciate and suggestions.

Many thanks!
Joost

 

[CrSens]

What was the old setup?

 

[joostdemoor]

All was the same except for the turtable and cartridge, which was a Dual 505-2 with an Ortofon OM20 cartridge

 

[ra7c7er]

I'm not finding anyone expressing issues with those releases as far as I could find.

I know it would be happening all the time but have you checked the headshell, cart, and stylus to make sure nothing is off? I had a cart that would come loose and the sound would get all wonky. When I lifted the arm the cart would straighten took me starring at the turntable while it was playing to finally find the issue.

Is it all over the records or just in a couple sections?

 

[CrSens]

Probably defective cantilever or mistake with tracking force (way too high) That it happens not Immediately after dropping the stylus on record, but with some delay is a sign of defective stylus or cantilever fatigue.

 

[Genov]

I have had a similar happening with a dirty stylus. It had been kept clean (i thought), but i kept having distortion off and on.

Buy a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser, and cut it into smaller pieces. Dip your cart/stylus into it 3 or 4 times. This will remove all funk - works well.

 

[maxhifi]

If that record is especially thin, and the arm lowering mechanism is set a bit too high, it could do this.

 

[war2thegrave]

If that record is especially thin, and the arm lowering mechanism is set a bit too high, it could do this.

This.
I had this problem when I switched from the standard platter to the acrylic platter on my Fluance table. Aparently, the acrylic platter
is a few MM shorter than the aluminum platter.

Check tonearm lifter, adjust VTA if available,
or try thicker slipmat.

 

[joecoulson]

The lifter from Rega sometimes needs adjusting, my P6 did

Small allen in the block, I 'll see if I can grab a pic of the location later today

 

[joostdemoor]

This.
I had this problem when I switched from the standard platter to the acrylic platter on my Fluance table. Aparently, the acrylic platter
is a few MM shorter than the aluminum platter.

Check tonearm lifter, adjust VTA if available,
or try thicker slipmat.

I'll check it. However, when I lower the tonearm next to the platter it goes well below the platter. In other words, the problem does not seem to be that the tonearm cannot reach low enough (eithebr because the record or the slipmat is too thin). Or do I misunderstand?

 

[joostdemoor]

The lifter from Rega sometimes needs adjusting, my P6 did

Small allen in the block, I 'll see if I can grab a pic of the location later today

Thanks for the idea. When I lower the tonearm next to the platter it goes well below the platter. Do you still think the lifter might be the problem? If so, a picture would indeed be very welcome!

 

[joostdemoor]

I have had a similar happening with a dirty stylus. It had been kept clean (i thought), but i kept having distortion off and on.

Buy a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser, and cut it into smaller pieces. Dip your cart/stylus into it 3 or 4 times. This will remove all funk - works well.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that's it. It happens only with these two records, and i regularly clear my stylus with one of these sticky gel pads.

 

[joostdemoor]

Probably defective cantilever or mistake with tracking force (way too high) That it happens not Immediately after dropping the stylus on record, but with some delay is a sign of defective stylus or cantilever fatigue.

Thanks for the suggestion. However, if it was a broken stylus or cantilever, shouldn't I notice it with other records too? Also, the turntable is brand new. As for tracking force, I measured it with a scale and it's should be correct, but I can check of course whether adding or removing weight will improve things.

 

[joostdemoor]

I'm not finding anyone expressing issues with those releases as far as I could find.

I know it would be happening all the time but have you checked the headshell, cart, and stylus to make sure nothing is off? I had a cart that would come loose and the sound would get all wonky. When I lifted the arm the cart would straighten took me starring at the turntable while it was playing to finally find the issue.

Is it all over the records or just in a couple sections?

Thanks for the suggestion. I think the headshell is solid. It also has Rega's three point mount, which should further ensure it is well mounted.

It is all over the record an on both sides, and not even at any very particular (e.g. loud) points

 

[flavio81]

All was the same except for the turtable and cartridge, which was a Dual 505-2 with an Ortofon OM20 cartridge

To be honest I don't rate those Rega MM cartridges and in my view your OM20 is a far better cartridge... BUT the problem you're describing shouldn't happen with your Rega cartridge.

It sounds, honestly, like a dirty stylus. Have you checked the stylus?
Or incorrect VTF, but i would assume you've already checked that...
Or grossly, grossly incorrect azimuth!

You say other records play fine. This sounds like some records are dirty, perhaps...

 

[Genov]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that's it. It happens only with these two records, and i regularly clear my stylus with one of these sticky gel pads.

Beware of the gel pad cleaners. That is how my issue started. They can cause bad build up issues over time. Get you a magic clean eraser and use it. What do you have to lose? They cost a few bucks.

 

[ripblade]

Every time I lift the stylus and put it back down, the sound will be fine for a few seconds, but then become distoted again.

Sounds like a dusty record to me. Plays fine until enough dust builds up , unseating the stylus during extreme excursions. The dust may not be visible, but it doesn't take much to unseat the stylus nearing the limit of its tracing ability.

It's also entirely possible the cartridge can't track the modulations. It happens.

 

[joostdemoor]

Sounds like a dusty record to me. Plays fine until enough dust builds up , unseating the stylus during extreme excursions. The dust may not be visible, but it doesn't take much to unseat the stylus nearing the limit of its tracing ability.

It's also entirely possible the cartridge can't track the modulations. It happens.

It's true that the Exact is somehow able to skretch gunk out of grooves that I thought were clean, but still, it's really something that only happens with these two particular records, one of which is new and cleaned

 

[joostdemoor]

Beware of the gel pad cleaners. That is how my issue started. They can cause bad build up issues over time. Get you a magic clean eraser and use it. What do you have to lose? They cost a few bucks.

OK, i'll give the magic eraser another try. Had one in the past, but gave up on it, because it ddn't seem to do much (because the spungy structure of the eraser seams to make hardly any contact with the stylus). I'm also looking into liquid cleaners now. However, this still does not answer the mistery of what is going on with these two particular records...

 

[joostdemoor]

To be honest I don't rate those Rega MM cartridges and in my view your OM20 is a far better cartridge... BUT the problem you're describing shouldn't happen with your Rega cartridge.

It sounds, honestly, like a dirty stylus. Have you checked the stylus?
Or incorrect VTF, but i would assume you've already checked that...
Or grossly, grossly incorrect azimuth!

You say other records play fine. This sounds like some records are dirty, perhaps...

Dirty stylus I'm looking into, as the gel pad I use might not get everything off. I will add a liquid cleaner and a magic eraser to the toolkit. Still, why does it play up only with these two particular (clean) records. VTF should be ok, unless my scales are bad. Azimuth shouldn't be a problem, becuase the Rega tonearm is a single piece.