SP-2500 speakers vs. KLH, AR, Advent?

[KeithD]

There is a set of Sansui SP-2500 speakers for sale locally. They are aesthetically appealing , but I'm wondering about the sound. My speakers are almost all linked to Henry Kloss: KLH 6 and 17, Small Advent, AR 4x and 6. Also have a set of Yamaha NS-05, which sound very similar to the KLH 6 to me. For those who have hear the SP-2500 and any of the other ones I've mentioned, how do they compare? I'm happy with all of my current speakers in sound quality, The AR-4x is a bit lacking in the high end, but I guess that's a known issue with those. Would I be happy with a set of SP-2500s given what I currently have?

 

[Sansuiman]

I've not had any useful exposure to most of the speaker models you've listed. Have an uncle who had some KLH's (not certain what model) for years driven by a Yamaha amp, a CR-2020 receiver IIRC. Needless to say, they had a much different sound overall with that setup than anything Sansui, owing to both the speakers and the amp.

The various speaker models you've listed all have dedicated followers and much has been written and opined on with any of the Henry Kloss designed/associated speakers. They also have a lot of hard core fans.

Turning the discussion to the SP-2500, first thing to note is that Sansui speakers are and have been a target of derision for a long time by many whose taste in speakers is skewed to American or European designed and built speaker systems. I see a lot of posting elsewhere online that disparages Japanese made speakers, irrespective of their brand or age. Full disclosure: I am a fan of many - but certainly not all - Sansui speakers, and own several pair, including SP-2500's.

I will list the strengths and obvious weaknesses of rbe 2500's and leave it to others to attempt informed comparisons. Their strengths are a well made cabinet and a strong high range owing to the horn tweeter. HF response may be a bit too hot for those who have been accustomed to speakers with the more traditional cone or dome tweeter.

Their weaknesses are partly due to age and partly inherent in the design. Any you find now will be nearly 50 years old. The crossovers are an issue in that they will need electrolytic caps replaced, preferably with film caps. They also have two 3 position rotary switches to adjust the mid and high frequency output (each marked clear/natural/soft). These switches have contacts that tarnish badly and will need cleaning to pass signal properly.

Midrange response is adequate, not overly strong or weak from my perception. Bass response is underwhelming in stock form, which makes little sense in a ported enclosure using a 12" woofer with a surprisingly large magnet. However, this is another age related problem: the woofers have a cloth surround treated with a doping agent (a rubberized coating) that hardens up with age and makes the surrounds way too stiff, thereby nicking the bass response by partially crippling the cone movement of the woofer.

It has been suggested that treating the surrounds with DOT-3 brake fluid softens the doping compound enough to restore the free movement of the woofer - and in turn the intended low frequency response of them - but this only lasts so long before they stiffen again. The longer term solution is to replace the surrounds with modern foam or rubber types which will allow them to reach their full potential without ongoing intervention to keep the surrounds compliant enough to function properly.

Aside from all that, there is the typical bashing of kabuki speakers with too many drivers in one box that will get trotted out almost anytime Sansui speakers are discussed online, but oddly these sort of remarks are almost always followed on by the poster stating that their choice of speaker is far better, so a lack of objectivity tends to be apparent in such remarks. I'm being honest when I say I like the sound of many models of speaker Sansui made - when allowing for necessary correction of age related issues like recapping and surround replacement - but I'm not going to claim they are the greatest speakers ever, nor that they are better than X, Y and Z model of speaker.

And having said all that, discussion of how a particular speaker mates well (or doesn't) with a given amp and their relationship to the listening space hasn't even been broached. And really, there's the rub. This stuff is all so subjective and dependent on the individuals perception, amps/sources used, listening room and even long standing preconceived notions, that trying to make a usefully descriptive comparison sight unseen (hearing unheard?) isn't really possible.

Ultimately, you either spend your money and take your chances, or you play it safe and stick with what you have that works. The latter is perfectly fine if you enjoy your current system; no reason to change that then. But if it isn't satisfactory, or curiosity is eating at you, then buying and giving them a proper listen in-situ is really the only way to judge them.

 

[KeithD]

Thanks Sansuiman, all very good points. Totally agree on the amp/speaker pairing being very important. My example is the AR-4x, which is weaker in the high range; however, they sound really good with my 9090, which I find a bit more neutral than my Eight or cap coupled receivers. So the AR-4x works really well for me with the 9090, but lacks and sounds muddy with the Eight. On the other hand the Yamaha NS-5 is better in the high range and borders on a little harsh paired with the 9090, but sound amazing with my Eight.

I have spent some time reading posts about Sansui SP series speakers and all the criticisms. Most reflect the concerns you mentioned. Sentiment also seems to be that you can get better sounding speakers for the same money, so why bother with Sansui? Then there are also those posts that say they sound great, but make me wonder if they have tried any other speakers? Everything sounds good until you find something that sounds better.

So, I think the SP-2500 looks great, but that won't outweigh the sound to me. The observation that the Sansui's will have a much different sound than my Kloss pedigree speakers may be enough to put me off.

 

[Sansuiman]

The SP-2500 is far enough away in sonic characteristics from anything else you've been running that - assumng you have a preference for the Kloss sound - you will hear a night and day difference that you may not care for. The Sansui's would need work right out of the gate (recapping, woofer surrounds) to get them to where they need to be to properly evaluate them anyway.

Sansui had a unique approach with these using two midranges and a Horn tweeter on a steel baffle plate with opposing inward angles to "focus" the sweet spot. The mids are small sealed back paper cone jobs and I suspect two are needed to get adequate output in the mid frequency range to balance out with the woofer and horn tweeter which is very efficient.

In short, you are probably wise to give them a pass based on pre-existing preferences and factors. I recognize that I'm very much. in the minority insofar as really enjoying Sansui speakers, so I try not to use my own opinions to influence others to buy them, while at the same time not engaging in the bashing they tend to take from their most vocal critics.

 

[KeithD]

The SP-2500 is far enough away in sonic characteristics from anything else you've been running that - assumng you have a preference for the Kloss sound - you will hear a night and day difference that you may not care for. The Sansui's would need work right out of the gate (recapping, woofer surrounds) to get them to where they need to be to properly evaluate them anyway.

Those two issues alone would not make it worth the asking price. The speakers are being offered at a fair price, but not "needs work" price.

I do like the Kloss sound, but have not heard much else. I had a pair of Zenith Allegro 1500 speakers at one point that I thought sounded good, but I traded them off as I stocked up on Kloss pedigree speakers. The most impressive of the group are the Advents. It's not that they are the best speaker, but that for the size of the box, they put out amazingly good sound. The more I read about Henry Kloss, the more I bought in to his sonic genius, AND all of my speakers were found locally.

Thanks again for your perspective. It's been very helpful!