Speaker Distortion at High Volume

Remember that our perception of loudness is logarithmic. That mean that to double the perceived loudness requires about ten times more power. So when an amplifier/speaker combination is playing at only 50 percent of its capacity, its ability to get perceivable much louder is limited.

For example, if you are listening to a power level of 1 watt, it is easy to get to 10 watts. But if your are listening at a power level of 50 watts then for the perceived sound level to be 2 times as loud would require in the vicinity of 500 watts.

This is just an example. ConradH's peak to average ratio applies.
 
At some point peak to average( crest factor) doesn't help, if peak is very high, the cone has to follow and flex. One push of over the edge will deform the voice coil also and start rubbing.

I don't even think I can agree about smaller amp distort faster and blow the woofer. Yes, clipping is a lot harder on the tweeter, not so much on the woofer. Clipping generates higher harmonics, no much harder on woofer.

The high power amp will have a lot more peak and that can blow the woofer.....literally poop the cone out!!!

It all depends on individual, I have no problem driving a bookshelf with my 200W huge amps, I don't listen that loud. Loud is subjective, if you don't drive the bookshelf that hard like me, even if I use a 200W amp to drive a 50W bookshelf and use it for a long time, it won't hurt the speaker. It is likely that very loud to most of us is not loud enough for OP. When I played in the band, we played loud, the ears get used to the sound level, I like to hear music loud. Not anymore. In fact, to me, what distinguish a good system from the ordinary is the good system can sound good loud, a bad system only sounds good when cranked.
 
No i get that i just like to crank it once in a while for a few minutes when im showing off the system to someone...and the room is quite large. In fact i knocked out the walls combining the kitchen, living room and dining room all in one. There is no furniture as my house is still in the contruction/renovation phase. I should get a spl app to get an idea of how loud these are...also the speakers are mounted on the drop down ceiling mounts...so placement of the speakers are generally quite high. Realstically though i think its loud enough volume for me since i hardly ever crank it up to the point when you have to yell in the other persons ear to hear them...but once in a while its nice to crank it for a few minutes, you know what i mean? True though when you have to yell in someones ear to hear them...i dont see why we need that amount of volume...nor is safe to listen to that for long periods of time. Like i said though an spl meter would be interesting to place a various points in the room and alos 1m from the speaker.
 
A bookshelf is too small for a very big room. Double that you have them up high, you don't have the floor and corner to help you. You just need a bigger speaker. Go with the buttering up.


Consider an entertainment cabinet, it's quite big and can be nice looking. With the big cabinet, the floor standing is not going to stick out. I have the entertainment cabinet, my big boss approved it.


On the side note, I like houses with separate living room, dinning room and family room instead of the new homes that put everything together in one big area. I like separation and privacy. Big boss like to watch tv in the family room and I like it in living room, we can crank it up and just close the door. We are old married couple ( 31 years), we don't need togetherness anymore!!!! We don't watch the same tv show other than the news, so we go our separate ways. Snuggle up and watch tv together are in tv shows and young couples, I ain't going to sit there to watch "marry at first signt" and those lifetime movies!!!! I like my NCIS, Chicago Fire, Last Ship......................


Houses have fashion too, I remember like 20+years ago, all the new houses have separate small rooms, now it seems everybody are into openness, one big family/kitchen/dinning room and tiny living room.
 
Last edited:
trivium91 said:
..but once in a while its nice to crank it for a few minutes, you know what i mean?
Click to expand...
Say what you want but the laws of physics don't give a hoot. A speaker can only move so much air no matter how long you push 'em.

You want big sound, even for a few minutes? You need big speakers. ...period,
 
Power vs time. You exceeded the power capability of the speakers over that period of time plain and simple. The smell was the voice coils being overheated.

This is similar to the relationship of the throttle and RPM of an engine.
 
Just wanted to update everyone, i took apart the speakers and there appears to be nothing burnt..voice coils look fine and move fine. I have no way of checking the tweeters but i think everything is fine maybe just the woofers got a little hot and started to melt the glue and i turned it down just in time before anything burnt. At any rate, is there any benefit in replacing the poly woofers with Kevlar ones? I found on Alliexpress a pair of 5.25" drivers for $100, they are are 60 watts though...not sure if thats RMS or peak as its in chinese. They look high quality, also i dont know what wattage of drivers i currently have as the part number does not show up anywhere. BTW my speakers say 100 Watts RMS on the back but as mentioned before its probably at like 1KHZ where the low frequencies cant handle as much driver movement or heat. I might be better off building my own speakers as im not paying $300+ for speakers that dont match the decor or the color which is an off white.
 
trivium91 said:
Alright so general consensus is that im pushing too much power through these speakers? I do have some floor standers that i can test this amp with...maybe i can see if i can get the volume dial a little higher before distorting?. The floor standers are actually for my home gym. There is no way she will let me use floor standers in the living room, i also have a passive soundbar running the tv in the same living room from my onkyo receiver so lots of speakers lol.
Click to expand...

As superampman said earlier, the integrated amp is probably maxed out near where you have the knob. Bear in mind volume position relative to actual output is also dictated by how strong the source signal is, in addition to the gain structure of the preamp/power amps sections.

Frankly, this sounds like another case of not enough rig for the gig. Unless you change to speakers having much higher sensitivity, I suspect you'll be pushing the amp to its limit quite often and that ain't good for speakers no matter what size they are.
 
I don't think the sub is the solution, you still have the mid and high that is being over powered. They might not physically move as much, but the heat is there.

Also, even if you put a sub, if you don't filter out the lows to the small speaker, you still push the full power into the small speaker. You have to have a high pass filter between the amp and the speaker, now you open another can of worms.

I won't change the woofer, you don't know whether the new one will match. I don't think it's that easy that you can change to a different woofer and the sound will match.

Still the best is to butter up the big boss...........

Then if that fails, she doesn't mind small speaker, get another pair so you have two pairs to do the same job. Particular if you get the same speaker, they don't change the characteristics of the final sound................Or cause you can buy another pair that complement this pair so you have the best of both combined together. Just buy it and install it, big boss complain, you just said you don't mind small speakers, these are all small speakers!!!!:biggrin:
 
Last edited:
No one else said it so I will: Replacing a woofer (in particular) is a delicate business and is not likely to turn out well without significant research on exactly what will work. Woofers interact with the cabinet (volume AND the type - sealed, ported, vented) and a replacement must be of the right type. Also, sensitivity and impedance come into play in terms of matching to the crossover and tweeter. Even if you had all that in hand and selected a proper woofer that could handle more power, you still have the same tweeter with its own power limits (which you would likely exceed while cranking up your shiny new woofers). Best to leave a speaker alone because this type of 'upgrade' is more complicated than it seems at first glance. If you need more speaker, you need different speakers.
 
i sort of assumed my soundstage subwoofer has a built in crossover, would this not be true? It has hi level in and out to speakers and a frequency adjustment for the sub. Would this not also cut the frequencies of the speakers? If not i can always run the receiver with a crossover and plug the subwoofer into the subwoofer output. This would only be possible with my yamaha rx-2700 which i dont mind using in place...im sure a high end receiver will sound great with just music aswell. Also running two other speakers even if the same seems like it would ruin the stereo image i would also be running 4 OHM impedence...which im not sure i want to do.
 
You still have mid and highs to deal with. Those don't move the cone, but it's still power. Why don't you want to think about getting another pair of bookshelf and hang it up. Your big boss is ok with that, so hang one more pair. You now double the power capability. You can still put a sub, they are not mutually exclusive. You need more power handling all around.

Again, as I said before, don't even think about changing woofer, you upset the balance.
 
Leave those speakers alone, the amplifier is pure crap, it's going to blow other speakers, theres no way that thing is 110w per channel, no way..
 
trivium91 said:
i sort of assumed my soundstage subwoofer has a built in crossover, would this not be true? It has hi level in and out to speakers and a frequency adjustment for the sub. Would this not also cut the frequencies of the speakers?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Sometimes that "speaker out" is merely for convenience sake. Check your manual.

That crossover you see is merely a low pass filter so you can blend in the sub to where your mains fall off. I doubt it has anything to do with what's sent to your mains

Again, check your manual. Their web site isn't too clear on this.
 
Depends on the sensitivity of the speakers and how noisy the amp is, then of course how noisy the source. Wow and flutter of the turntable, maybe an old DAC in an old CD player, interconnecting cables, distortion ratio of the signal strength of an amp, age of the speaker wire and condition of the speaker crossover. Then of course the circuit patterns used by a manufacturer....but the main thing of it not sounding good together ! A quiet system doesn't come easy....
 
I say give them hell....turn them up to 11 and see if they blow.
If they do, get another pair of the same and only turn them up to 10.9999999999999999999999999999999
Let us know how that works out. Maybe even videotape* it for us.













* Or whatever the modern day term is for moving pictures with sound.

OH, and as far as the original question, something is not happy in your system.
Others have offered advice which you can take. Or not.
 
Last edited:
So i tried the tower speakers, no change in the volume knob. I cant say if they went any louder, perhaps slightly quieter or about the same but just a fuller sound and more bass obviously. I brought my sub-woofer in this time and i discovered it does not have a hi pass filter as someone mentioned not all subs do. The speakers are basically running in full range all the time. Interestingly enough i turned the bass knob all the way down so that the sound was completely flat and i really wasn't able to get anymore volume since now the tweeter was starting to distort...over driven maybe? I actually did this on both bookshelf speakers and the tower speakers turning the bass all the way down, the tweeters were distorting when trying to push it further. If that was a not enough i plugged in my yamaha RX-2700 which is a 37 LBS monster at 145 Watts per channel, and i was disappointed to learn i wasn't getting any more noticeable volume before the speakers would distort...i did the same bass trick turning it down with the same result. So maybe im just asking too much from home audio speakers for a large room...probably ~600 to ~700 Square ft ? The only thing i have not tried yet is biamping the tower speakers with the yamaha amp. On a side note since these speakers frequency range says 70hz-20 khz is there any point in even running an external 80hz crossover since if the lowest frequency on the speakers is 70hz already it sounds like they have a built in one?. I also ran an SPL app on my phone which is obviously not accurate since i have nothing to calibrate it to but it would be consistent between the two amps anyways, they were showing about the same readings of 90DB on both amps. I would think that im running upwards of 100dbs though realistically, well above normal comfortable listening.
 
Last edited:
1. Crossover frequencies represent the tipping point on a curve, not an absolute cutoff. Think of it as the outline of a mountain, rather than a cliff. A typical crossover might drop off at 12 db per octave on either side of the crossover point. So if the crossover is at 80 Hz there is still a significant amount of signal going through at 70 Hz.
2. As a result, your speakers would still be getting significant signal near the bottom of their rated range even with an 80 Hz crossover installed. BUT you are still removing a lot of that material to the sub, plus everything down deep where the main speakers won't even play it.
3.It might be even better to cut it off higher than 80, say at 100 or even higher. Most subs will operate up to a couple hundred Hz.

What make and model are these tower speakers?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom