Speaker surround foam - is there a real difference?

Krosya

Krosya

Well-Known Member
Hi All,

When it comes to a speaker foam replacement, it seems that there are a couple of vendors that are always recommended here, usually accompanied with a comment to not get anything like "Cheap Chinese Stuff".
Well, looking at ebay, a set for a 2 woofer surrounds in whatever size from the "respected" sources costs about 10 times of the "Cheap Chinese" variants. So, question I have - is there really a difference? I mean, where do these sellers get their foam? I'm sure they dont make it themselves and just like most things today - they come from China. Did anyone try the Cheap Chinese surrounds ? Compared them to ones sold at 10x the price from the well known sellers? Or we just assume that its impossible to get a quality product cheaper? Even if purchased directly from China and not having the USA Seller markup on whats a basically the same thing?
I mean, its a surround, has to be pretty easy to make.
Or ones that are sold for more money are made in US and from different materials and vastly better quality?
I know, twenty bucks for surrounds is not a big deal for a $600 speaker. But if its a $20 speaker - does it make sense to pay more for the surround foam that I paid for the speakers?
Well, I think you see what I'm getting at. Btw, I have done a few speaker surrounds and always followed this "rule" to buy more expensive stuff from well known sellers. But I wonder - was I wasting money?
 
Register to hide this ad
Krosya said:
Hi All,

When it comes to a speaker foam replacement, it seems that there are a couple of vendors that are always recommended here, usually accompanied with a comment to not get anything like "Cheap Chinese Stuff".
Well, looking at ebay, a set for a 2 woofer surrounds in whatever size from the "respected" sources costs about 10 times of the "Cheap Chinese" variants. So, question I have - is there really a difference? I mean, where do these sellers get their foam? I'm sure they dont make it themselves and just like most things today - they come from China. Did anyone try the Cheap Chinese surrounds ? Compared them to ones sold at 10x the price from the well known sellers? Or we just assume that its impossible to get a quality product cheaper? Even if purchased directly from China and not having the USA Seller markup on whats a basically the same thing?
I mean, its a surround, has to be pretty easy to make.
Or ones that are sold for more money are made in US and from different materials and vastly better quality?
I know, twenty bucks for surrounds is not a big deal for a $600 speaker. But if its a $20 speaker - does it make sense to pay more for the surround foam that I paid for the speakers?
Well, I think you see what I'm getting at. Btw, I have done a few speaker surrounds and always followed this "rule" to buy more expensive stuff from well known sellers. But I wonder - was I wasting money?
Click to expand...
In many cases it does indeed make a significant difference, the trick can be knowing when it does and when it doesn't. That $20 speaker may well have been a $600 speaker years ago and if you cheap out on it now it may not perform like it did originally and can again when refoamed with the correct foam. To achieve the best results it would be a good idea to research the foams on an individual basis and not throw around likely incorrect assumptive blanket statement generalizations.
 
The surrounds from guys like Rick Cobb are much better. They have the correct roll size and are more compliant than cheap foam surrounds. Also they fit the cone much better without having to cut the foam.

There are good reasons why most people recommend him

The cheap Chinese surrounds are good for flippers though. Buy a 20 pack of the common sizes 8", 10", 12" etc and you are good to go
 
So, are you saying that foam that is sold by well known/recommended sellers is indeed different than what Chinese sellers offer? If so, in what way?
 
What makes this more difficult is that half of the "performance" of the foam is linked to it's long-term durability. How it works 200 hours after re-foaming is one thing. How it works five or ten years after re-foaming is another.

IF we find that some replacement foam surrounds last and others don't, 1) we won't know that for years, and 2) the vendor may have changed suppliers, the suppliers may have changed their "formula". This is a moving target and I can't think of any way to get ahead of it. You're going to buy "something" and hope for the best--and if it doesn't work out you're going to scrap the speakers or try to re-re-foam them. In the end, we'll hope for the best.

God Bless Polk, for using butyl rubber surrounds instead of foam.
 
elitopus said:
The surrounds from guys like Rick Cobb are much better. They have the correct roll size and are more compliant than cheap foam surrounds. Also they fit the cone much better without having to cut the foam.

There are good reasons why most people recommend him
Click to expand...

I see, so where does his foam come From? Not China? Usa made to more critical standards? I have never tried those Chinese cheaper surrounds, but they look identical to ones I got from Rick before. Don't look like it needs to be cut or anything. Just wonder.
 
The surround is the visible suspension of the cone. The spider is the internal one down by the voice coil where it meets the cone. If you cheap out you will have a speaker that is further away from design than if you use correct surrounds. I doubt you can get exact today but getting one that someone has done the work to determine that it works correctly is much better than slapping a thick, stiff, generic onto anything you are going to listen to. Advent Loudspeakers and New Advent Loudspeakers are a particular case in point. Generic is too stiff, the real replacements sold by the good guys makes the speaker perform as best it can and compares with original. Generic takes bass response to some horrible level, less.

The surround is the suspension system of the driver, you gonna put Rancho shocks on your sports car? Are you going to put comfort shocks on your off road rig? Or worse, are you going to trust the cheap generic to be designed with your speaker in mind?
 
Last edited:
Schurkey said:
What makes this more difficult is that half of the "performance" of the foam is linked to it's long-term durability. How it works 200 hours after re-foaming is one thing. How it works five or ten years after re-foaming is another.

IF we find that some replacement foam surrounds last and others don't, 1) we won't know that for years, and 2) the vendor may have changed suppliers, the suppliers may have changed their "formula". This is a moving target and I can't think of any way to get ahead of it. You're going to buy "something" and hope for the best--and if it doesn't work out you're going to scrap the speakers or try to re-re-foam them. In the end, we'll hope for the best.

God Bless Polk, for using butyl rubber surrounds instead of foam.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. And this would make a difference to me. Problem is I don't think anyone knows if one lasts longer than the other.
 
Blue Shadow said:
The surround is the visible suspension of the cone. The spider is the internal one down by the voice coil where it meets the cone. If you cheap out you will have a speaker that is further away from design that if you use correct surrounds. I doubt you can get exact today but getting one that someone as done the work to determine that it works correctly is much better than slapping a thick stiff, generic onto anything you are going to listen to. Advent Loudspeakers and New Advent Loudspeakers are a particular case in point. Generic is too stiff, the real replacements sold by the good guys makes the speaker perform as best it can and compares with original. Generic takes bass response to some horrible level, less.

The surround is the suspension system of the driver, you gonna put Rancho shocks on your sports car? Are you going to put comfort shocks on your off road rig? Or worse, are you going to trust the cheap generic to be designed with your speaker in mind?
Click to expand...

You make valid points, but is there real evidence that cheaper surrounds are indeed of poorer quality? If is it a myth that people buy into and after a while it becomes "the truth". I think there are many examples of this out there in other areas.
 
Krosya said:
You make valid points, but is there real evidence that cheaper surrounds are indeed of poorer quality? If is it a myth that people buy into and after a while it becomes "the truth". I think there are many examples of this out there in other areas.
Click to expand...

Buy some cheap ones and see for yourself. There are some 9 dollar sets on ebay. And I'm sure cheaper ones if you buy in bulk
 
Krosya said:
You make valid points, but is there real evidence that cheaper surrounds are indeed of poorer quality? If is it a myth that people buy into and after a while it becomes "the truth". I think there are many examples of this out there in other areas.
Click to expand...

Nowhere in my post did I say they were of poorer quality. I said they are not selected to work well with the speaker you are trying to refoam. I use both generics and specifics. It depends on the speaker and its use. JL Sub needs the right thicker than Chinese foam or the power will tear it apart. The Advents have been mentioned. For the Blaupunkt plates in the Jeep or the GoldSound subs in the car (running an ADS speaker and amp set up) I used generics. I can tune the bass, crossover point, level and such on the subs and the Jeep, I'm just happy when the radio works.

Use whatever you want but if you want to get as close as the speaker was, use a surround that folks have determined to be the best they have found for that driver.

Most folks will not hear the difference between what the speaker used to sound like and what the new surrounds do for it. But many will hear a difference between generic and specific foam. There is a difference in many cases.
 
Krosya said:
I actually was thinking to do just that, but thought I would ask here first. However, it seems that questioning "traditions" is a no-no here....
Click to expand...
It's not that you are questioning traditions, nothing wrong with that, it's the manor in which you are doing it and asserting assumptions you have already made prior to inquiring into the matter. :)
 
I'll admit, I've done a lot of refoams with cheap MAT electronics foams. In some cases, there is quite a difference between them and the more expensive type. For example, the "fillet" foams I use on Boston Acoustics, EPI's, etc., are obviously more compliant than the cheap ones. On the other hand, I've ordered 8" foams from 2 different reputable sources for use on Advent Heritage and Prodigy speakers and the more expensive ones seem no more compliant than the cheap ones.

Let's be realistic, most surrounds are somewhat "generic" in size and compliance. It doesn't make sense to make a specific foam for each woofer produced. If there is a foam available that is specific for that woofer (i.e. 10" Advent Masonite, Boston Acoustic filleted), I'll usually spring for it. If there isn't, I consider the value of the speaker and if it might be a keeper before I spend the money on a more expensive foam.
 
Almost any Advent is worth getting the proper surround,. If you do it right you have 30 years of good sound!!!!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom