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speaker surround quality

scoloheros

scoloheros

Super Member
I'm new to speaker repair, I just received some surrounds in the mail and they sure seem wimpy. They don't look like they will last long. But I'm ignorant when it comes to these surrounds, maybe it's standard for them to look this way, I know they have to be light but I expected there to be a little more to them. So my questions, do all foam surrounds have the same general quality or are their some dealers that provide better quality foam surrounds than other dealers? Anybody here have experience with different dealers and different quality foam surround products? I'm hesitating to put the ones on I received in the mail right now.
 
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Surronds

If you got them from a reliable dealer they are Ok, but if not order them from some of the dealers that advertise here at AK. Also what speaker brand are you putting them on. I use Midwest Speaker Service or Patrs Express..:tresbon:
 
I don't think I've ever received "wimpy" surrounds, although as they get bigger they seem a little softer?
But then I get what I need from Rcobb@tampabay.rr.com a well known supplier here on AK.

Tell him everybody sent you!
 
Some speakers really need to have flimsy surrounds. And it seems to me a more prevalent problem is actually surrounds that are too thick -- they are easier to make and handle, and fewer complaints about failure, even if they are actually not sufficiently compliant.
Remember its the air that supplies the stiffness in acoustic suspension and most modern bass reflex designs -- the role of the surround it to keep the inside and outside separate, and center the cone. If the surround does that, it's working.
 
OK thanks for the leads! I'm sure these would work very well, it just doesn't seem to me they would last very long, prob bad speculation on my part since I'm not experienced with this. I did order some foam guard though, I think it will make me feel a little better. I've got two pair of large Advents, 99% mint, Utility and Bullnose, stands came with each pair too. I found them at an estate sale, found some small Advents too so I have 6 speakers cleaned up and ready for new surrounds.
 
Advents MUST have "wimpy" surrounds to work correctly. Otherwise, you lose the lowest octave/part of the octave. As Nat said, the trapped air in the cabinet is the restoring force and the surround must not interfere with that.

As for how long they will last, you will find out, eventually. There are really no guarantees with them. Newer ones are supposed to be made of a longer lasting polymer but we'll see.

Doug
 
OK thanks. I'm confident they will work. It's that they feel rough and dry-ish already but I'm thinking that's normal. I've read some OK things about the foam guard, others are not fans of course, the way it goes with so much of the stereo stuff, so I'm planning to go that route.
 
Surrounds need to be flexible. That doesn't mean they are "wimpy". Some surrounds are thicker and less flexible. Those are typically made by laminating one surround to another. Cerwin Vega red over gray surrounds are a good example of a thicker surround accomplished by laminating one over the other. Some laminated surrounds aren't made with different colors, but most are.

When foam was first being molded for speaker surrounds, they were made from polyester foam. These days they are being molded from polyether foam, which is supposed to last longer.

The majority of American made foam speaker surrounds that are available as after market parts are manufactured by Rapid Die & Molding, or RDM.

There are foam surrounds being made in China, and some of the companies that sell surrounds in America for DIY repairs are selling the Chinese-made surrounds. The photos I've seen of the Chinese surrounds indicate a different molding process in that single layer or "wimpy" surrounds have shiny surfaces. They look to be pressed harder and thinner than the average American made surrounds. While I haven't (knowingly) used any Chinese surrounds for speaker repair, I would be inclined to stay away from them. They look like they would crack, split or tear before they would deteriorate due to rot.
 
There are a zillion vendors on that auction site selling cheap surrounds/refoam kits, but I always tend to buy mine from Simply Speakers. They cost a few bucks more, but they have an excellent reputation and have always provided me with quality products that seem to be OEM spec.

No affiliation with SS, just a customer
 
My Advent surrounds have all come from Cobb, who is in the bay as
looneytunes.

Working on a set of OLAs now, just need to finish cleaning one flange of the metal basket, and away we go.

Pay attention that OLA woofers are installed on the backside of the cone. Not fun to do first time. The small advent may be front mounted? Don't remember. But I did a set of /1 utility speakers almost two years ago, and the parts are usable for my OLAs, not that I want to strip them out!
 
Sorry, I wasn't associating "wimpy" to functionality, bad choice of words there. I'm sure these will work, I was only considering the life of the surround compared to others, I was imagining doing this all over again in a few years. But if all foam surrounds are made of the same material today I guess I'm good to go but waiting on the foam guard, thanks for the info considering other sources too. I wonder what the mark-up on surrounds is, it's prob crazy.

@Jim, The foams go on the front of the cone with the old masonite ring woofer and on the back of the masonite, almost all you can't remember about that is on Youtube somewhere, I forgot too so had to look it up. Simply Speakers has vids on both. The worst clean up for me are the all metal frames. The smalls are the same as the later Large Advents, like you're working on so they go on back of the woofer also.
 
CT Jim said:
I don't think I've ever received "wimpy" surrounds, although as they get bigger they seem a little softer?
But then I get what I need from Rcobb@tampabay.rr.com a well known supplier here on AK.

Tell him everybody sent you!
Click to expand...

Rick Cobb is the best and he is Honest and doesn't sell crap and backs what he sells..:yes::yes::yes::yes:
 
Hehe, my word for wimpy is "floppy". :D

And BTW, the original Advent masonite woofer should have the surround glued to the front of the cone and the back side of the masonite ring. All the others have the surround glued to the back of the cone flange.

EDIT: Oops, I didn't read the last part of post #12 before I wrote this.

Doug
 
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strat10 said:
Rick Cobb is the best and he is Honest and doesn't sell crap and backs what he sells..:yes::yes::yes::yes:
Click to expand...
I have to agree with that statement!

15 years ago I stocked 27 different speaker surrounds...ordered them direct from the manufacturer in minimum quantities of 500 each. I was selling them in smaller quantities to other businesses that do speaker repairs that didn't want to buy 500 or 1000 pieces when 10 or 20 might meet their inventory needs for 5 years. Quantities of less than 500 from the manufacturer come at an extreme increase in the cost per piece. My inventory would supply the right parts for probably 95% of demand at that time. Surrounds for speakers that are not made in large quantities and require surrounds that are not common can be difficult to impossible to find, simply because the inventory investment by wholesale suppliers just isn't worth it.

That's where Rick enters the picture. I ordered a pair of surrounds for a relatively low production run of an Infinity woofer from a well known surround retailer (not mentioned in this thread). What they sent me were larger in diameter than the originals - they wouldn't work. When I called them about that problem, I was told that they cut a small section out of the surround and splice the ends together to use them. What?!? That was unacceptable. I then ordered a pair of surrounds for those same woofers from Rick. He had the right parts! That experience alone leads me to believe that if he doesn't have the right parts, nobody does! :thmbsp:
 
I doubt if any supplier has every surround size and configuration, and I doubt that it matters. Cutting and overlapping, as long as it isn't extreme (so that the surrounds start to tilt inward) and is done carefully is perfectly acceptable, and no effect on the results. So while all the favorable comments on Rick Cobb are a very good inducement to use him, he isn't the only good source.
And there are plenty of crappy or unknown quality speakers out there that, if you have to spend twenty bucks to get them up and running, aren't going to get refoamed. So using a buck fifty generic surround makes sense -- if its the wrong surround and the speaker turns out to be so promising that it seems justified to blow big bucks for the exact correct foam, then you are out a buck fifty, or if it turns out the speakers stink and you chuck them, you are out a buck fifty. If it was an experimental 20 buck investment, you might not make it. This was exactly my experience with a pair of Lowther PM 6s which had once had flat foam surrounds, but no more, which I sat on for years. Finally I cut down and spliced a pair of MAT Electronics foams to verify that the speakers did what I hoped, and then after long enough use to know it was worth it, spent the fifty or a hundred dollars for the skimpiest looking pair of surrounds (and the bonus minisucule spiders) I've ever seen, which turned out to be an extraordinarily sound investment. But I wouldn't have made it without trying first.
 
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